Dwayner Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Hey Lou fans!I just found some stuff about His Lou-ness on the Internet! Keep reading...the best part is about the $28 summit climb. "Background on Lou WhittakerMountaineering legend Lou Whittaker quotes a passage by Helen Keller that he has memorized: "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." Whittaker was born Feb., 10, 1929, in Seattle's Green Lake neighborhood. Taking on challenges and risk runs in the family. Whittaker's twin brother Jim was the first American to summit Mount Everest. The inseparable twins first reached the summit of Mount Rainier in 1945, at age 16. Lou and Jim Whittaker took over Mt. Rainier's climbing guide service in 1952.Their first clients paid just $28 for a guided summit attempt. Nowadays, climbers who sign on for a summit attempt guided by Lou Whittaker's Rainier Mountaineering, Inc. pay $700 for a chance to make it to the top. Lou's philosophy is simple: "When it comes down to dying, I want to know what it is like to have really lived." And Dwayner say...they take what....about 20+ people up to Muir each day during the summer?...you do the math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 The math that appalled me (I was curious one quiet day at work) is what it would cost you to climb with RMI if you didn’t have any gear. Say you were a marathon runner who wanted to add this to your list of accomplishments. If you had to rent all the gear, it would come to $401 for the three day rental. The rental $$ is due up front, with no refunds within 30 days of the climb. (That includes sleeping bag, parka, ice axe, boots, fleece, sunglasses, thermarest, etc. No bunkhouse coffee cup, though.) The summit climb is $728. First (reasonably, I think) you have to pass their “Climbing School.” If you don’t, they refund you the $728, minus the cost of the climbing school, which is $154. (No refunds on the equipment rental, of course.) Their website goes on to say: 'If adverse weather or route conditions prevent the entire party from reaching Camp Muir on day two, you will receive a $287.00 credit for another Summit Climb. Individuals who are unable to reach Camp Muir or complete their program will not receive a refund.' In other words, if you sign up in September for a climb next July and that weekend happens to be poor weather, but part of the group presses on to Muir, well, you’re out of luck. But if the weather is so bad that no one reaches Muir, you’re only out $441, plus the rental fees. If you’re willing to try again later in the season. Plus, there are charges for changing your scheduled climb, no changes within 20 days, etc etc. I understand they’ve got a pretty full schedule, so they’re charging what the market will bear. But it’s remarkable (to me) that there are that many people out there who are willing to shell out that much $$ on an adventure with so much uncertainty, especially one that involves predicting conditions several months in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Alpine Tom: Their website goes on to say: 'If adverse weather or route conditions prevent the entire party from reaching Camp Muir on day two, you will receive a $287.00 credit for another Summit Climb. Individuals who are unable to reach Camp Muir or complete their program will not receive a refund.'In other words, if you sign up in September for a climb next July and that weekend happens to be poor weather, but part of the group presses on to Muir, well, you’re out of luck. But if the weather is so bad that no one reaches Muir, you’re only out $441, plus the rental fees. If you’re willing to try again later in the season. I've also heard that RMI will set out from Muir in the a.m. in even the worst weather to get the group to Ingraham Flats before a turnaround. This assures no refunds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnnut Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Quote from Peter Whittaker in "Lou Whittaker: Memoirs of a Mountain Guide" (page 138, of the hardback edition) about the 1981 icefall accident by Disappointment Cleaver: "We left early in the morning, about three o'clock, and stopped for a break as we usually do, at a place called the Ingraham Flats, a little over an hour out from Camp Muir, on the other side of a ridge called Cathedral Rocks. There, a rope team of three climbers turned back from exhaustion. Chris Lynch led them back to Muir. One of the four climbers on my rope had wanted to turn around then, too. I had been up here on the route the day before and I knew that there was so much new snow on the mountain that we'd probably turn around soon. We were more concerned about the danger of soft-snow avalanche than we were about an icefall. So I told him, "The chances of our going any higher than Disappointment Cleaver are real slim. Why don't you stay with us? It'll be a beautiful sunrise and a great experience for you." He agreed. He's one of the eleven still up there, buried in the glacier. It took me a long time to get a handle on that. I felt like I had talked someone into making the wrong decision. After the others headed back to Camp Muir, that left five guides and twenty clients. Since we knew we wouldn't be making a summit attempt, the guides made a joint decision to go far enough to check out Disappointment Cleaver...." I've never seen anyone question RMI's policy of always leaving Camp Muir even when they know they aren't going to the summit. A seldom mentioned tidbit is that they do so in order to retain all of the clients money. If they didn't, then they would have to consider allowing the client to reschedule or a partial refund (for when they don't even make Muir). Those who have observed RMI parties would probably question whether the departure of 3am referred to in the previous passage would be normal if they actually were planning to reach the summit too (it is usually earlier). Instead, it would appear that they were utilizing the fact that they were there (paid for by the clients that they were not intending to take to the summit) to scout out the conditions for a subsequent attempt with a different group. I met someone that signed up for a climb one autumn, not knowing any better. The guides got him up to the top of the cleaver and said something like "Gee, if it was just my buddies with experience we would go, but all you folks are don't have much experience to deal with these icy conditions". So they turned around. The client later found out that RMI hadn't been summiting with their groups for more than a week prior to his trip. They never mentioned that in advance though. [ 02-25-2002: Message edited by: mtnnut ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Guides are evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 I'm wondering if the $728 incldes materials for the mandatory Muir Hut Safety Meeting, or if that costs extra? But seriously, I'm on Page 12 if the infamous 'Muir on Saturday' thread, and I have to say that you guys really, really crack me up. Especially having met the rather mild-mannered in person Alpine K at a couple of Pub Clubs...I'd'a never thunk he could be at the center of such a SCANDAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 you should read his autobiography "life of an enviromentaly conscious lesbian woman stuck in a male loggers body" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: But seriously, I'm on Page 12 if the infamous 'Muir on Saturday' thread, and I have to say that you guys really, really crack me up. Especially having met the rather mild-mannered in person Alpine K at a couple of Pub Clubs...I'd'a never thunk he could be at the center of such a SCANDAL. What is probably more amazing is the fact that I had nothing to add to that entire thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 That was veggie back in the pre-Spraylord Liberation days. I notice he really turned it on after hooking up with me Erik n Lam(e)bone at Lillooet for some burning summit meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 E, I have read Big Lou's biography. I'm on the same page with many of the rest of you on big Lou's Status as most Excellent Sweater-Wearing Icon of Mountainography. He could give me a belay any old day. Oh...waitaminute, you're talking about Alpine K's autobio...well, it's on back-order at the library. I think Icegirl's got it checked out at the moment. But...I have the same contempt for guide services and this one in particular, for the same reasons. When I was just a young girl, my dad had the pleasure of visiting the Flats twice with our friends at RMI, and has no summitage. Now I don't think I could get his ass into good enough shape to do it with me. And Veg, having not read all the way through it yet, I had NO IDEA. Such restraint. What kind of a sprayer are you? Jimminy! OK, but I don't want anyone to tell me how Muir on Saturday ends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 I actually know someone who went on an RMI climb with his adult son. They didn’t make it past Muir, but he didn’t complain about it, or at least about the money.It's my guess that when Joe and Bob show up at the bunkhouse, having just flown in from Delaware, if the RMI guide says "it doesn't look good, so we're not going. Here's your rain check" they'd be pretty irate. I'd expect a lot of these type A personalities who've read "Into Thin Air" and watched "Vertical Limit" would opt to give it a shot, since they're already in it for $1000, plus a week of vacation time from work, plane tickets, etc. And, I'd bet that for a lot of folks without much climbing experience, watching the sunrise from Ingraham flats would be just about as dramatic and memorable as summiting. Certainly my first (failed) attempt on Rainier was pretty memorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 It ends like this: Rhett and Scarlett clinch as the ship sinks. The scientists deploy an A-bomb against the giant lizard and drive him back into the sea. The Ring is melted down in the volcano. The butler did it. It's all a dream. Actually, how it ended was JON LOCKED THE THREAD! Bastard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Hey, I told you not to tell me how it ends!!!Twink!!! I guess that now I won't be able to commit the evil act I had planned, when I get done reading (if I ever get done reading) I'd hoped to post a little something just so the thread would bubble-up to the to of the pile....DAMMIT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Just reply to one of the other threads called Muir on Saturday or start a new one and put the link to the locked thread on the first post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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