cj001f
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Posts posted by cj001f
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Have any cams failed yet? Is it a valid concern? I've watched these discussions snowball out of control. It is just bad press, and BD makes a functional product. They aren't going to sacrifice function for profit. If you want to do something productive take some of the new BD© cams and test them yourself. If you find discrepencies then make a post. Otherwise you are just bandwagon bashing a company trying to gain a professional edge.
So does BD pay you to be a press agent? If moving to China makes bad press, maybe they should have considered that and the reasons (some valid) why moving to China makes for bad press
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NYC. Visit for the boroughs, stay for the skiing...
Leave JFK at night at you can be in Chamonix by midday.
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For you there will be no mercy....
Whats the penalty? Deportation to the lEast Coast? Internment in the Bellevue forced labor camp?
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Oft overhead just after sinking a placement while quavering at the crux "God-DAMN that extra expansion range!!!!!!...."
It's probably heard as often as "I love 4wd" on I-90 heading to Snoqualmie. Leisure activities are fashion. I'm guilty too - I've a mass of stuff that can climb harder, ski better, and take better photos than I will ever be able too because those things made the most economic sense at the time.
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.....I could give 2 shits about R&D in the outdoor sports industry it's mostly fashion driven....
Ummm...yaaahh....I carry around those double axle cams for their good looks....same thing with that highly breathable single wall tent....
well, you epitomize the suburbanite fashion climber
...Never conceived of an excess of functionality being a fashion statement? Check out the Hummers at Bellevue Square some time.
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CJ...something tells me they ran the numbers here and they worked out.....just a guess.
Just a guess they are doing the standard overseas rampup of move assembly then migrate supply chain. There's nothing that special about springs or finishing that necessitates those processes being done in the US. But thats.... just a guess.
JayB-
If quality standards are held, sure. The problem with overseas manufacturing is maintaining those standards. It's alot harder to manage someone half a world away then in the next building....which has tripped up at least one cam company and more than one ski company. If they can make that change, kudos, it's tripped up more than one multinational.
Realistically the money saved just gets spit out to owners and investors. I could give 2 shits about R&D in the outdoor sports industry it's mostly fashion driven. As such a much more succinct statement would be "China is the manufacturing nation of the future for disposable consumer goods. Climbing gear is a disposable consumer good. Deal with it" Maybe I should just drink some more marketing KoolAid
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Greetings,
It is BD policy NOT to jump into forum discussions. However, we do feel a need to set the record straight so people can draw their conclusions from the facts. Our CEO and Co-Founder, Peter Metcalf, wrote the following a short while back in response to a forum posting on Mountain Project. As it is relevant to your discussion I thought it important enough to re-post with some minor additions, etc.
Best to you all,
Jeff Maudlin
THE EMPLOYEE OWNERS OF BLACK DIAMOND EQUIPMENT
It is important to note that BD is 100% committed to building the finest climbing gear on the planet. We go to great lengths to evaluate our processes in house and gain third party certification to the extent that we lead the industry in this regard. As a growing global brand, when we evaluate our production we must be unbiased as to the best overall course of action in terms of quality, cost and location. Our aim is to
constantly improve our systems and compromise nothing.
First off, it is important to understand that our manufacturing of goods, specifically pro, is being done in OUR factory in China. This is not an outsourced vendor operation. This is a Black Diamond built, owned, and managed facility that is operated and staffed by Black Diamond employees.
The BD team that got the operation going and is managing it has and/or does include the former head of engineering and manufacturing of BD SLC, the second in command of our QA department, our senior special project guy, one of our lead process engineers and a host of other BD employees (including myself) who have shuttled back and forth between BD Asia and BD North America. For that matter, we have had BD Europe employees there helping out as well. Conversely, we have had a steady flow of BD Asia employees coming here to SLC to train.
Secondly, please understand that the testing equipment, testing
standards, and training have all come from BD USA and are managed by BD SLC people at this time. For that matter, our BD facility just passed its ISO-9001 audit that was performed by the same French Senior Auditor from APAV-ASCERT that has been certifying our SLC operation for the past half dozen years. He had nothing but compliments and we are THE first company in our industry to have certification via a European certified body. With our systems passing the ISO Audit, and managed by the same ex-pats who managed it here, it is no longer necessary to re-test in SLC on a regular basis.
Thirdly, understand that the supply chain of components and parts is the same as it has been. The cams going onto the Camalots are made from USA-produced 7000 series aluminum, that are machined on our CNCs overseen by our engineers; the anodizing is done by Easton Alumuinum here in SLC and then they are shipped to our Asian facility. Cable, springs, and other parts still come from here or from the same suppliers that we were using when we were assembling them here. The supply chain
is not changed.
The Asian employees at BD's operation are well trained, dedicated, adult professionals who work in a new, very modern facility that is the envy of people in SLC. All of them who have worked for us get out climbing on company trips and we have built a very large, climbing wall at the facility that allows
employees to climb at lunch and after work. Our training and their dedication is nothing less than inspiring.
As you know, when you order an iPod or a PowerBook directly from Apple it comes directly from their facility in China. If you are living in Asia and purchase an Audi A4 or A6 it is being made in China and some of the Euro luxury manufacturers are preparing to export their first Chinese-made cars. Having climbed and worked in China, I can assure you that the Chinese are a joy to climb with; take great pride in their work; and are capable of great things. The question simply comes down to management and ownership and the vision and commitment of those in charge.
BD Asia shares BD's ethos, commitment to high quality, and they share our passion for the life-defining activity of climbing. It is truly the world's universal Esperanto a language we all not only speak but feel. BD is a very global brand just like climbing and skiing are global endeavors. For that matter, some of our fastest sales growth has been in China and Asia as a middle class emerges and has time to explore the beauty and challenge of Asia's crags and mountains. The marketplace feels much like the U.S. felt like in the very late 60s and early 70s. BD is committed to being global and to being an intimate and contributing member of each climbing/ski community that we are a
part of. That is true in Europe as well.
This is not about shutting down BD SLC as a manufacturing facility, to the contrary we have expanded our SLC facility this past year by 50 employees and we are fully maxed out, even with two full shifts. It's about the right products in the right places with the right skill sets and expertise, all by BD employees. We view this expansion very much as an extension of what we are already doing. The processes, materials, quality assurance are all the same. It's still Black Diamond.
Over the past year we have been assembling a large percentage of our ice tools at BD China. Technical tools are done at both facilities currently though they may shift fully to BD Asia. In addition, we are assembling ATCs there and plan to slowly shift C3s there over time as well as some other products. Many products will remain here while some will be done at both facilities in future years. It is a work-in-process. It's
"generally" labor intensive assembly that is done at BD China. Quality assurance is performed both in Salt Lake City and Asia by BD employees. Regardless, it's still BD, and still being made by BD.
Finally you should be aware that the majority of our competitors are having climbing hardware products made for them at OEM facilities in Taiwan and China but they neither control nor manage these and most seem to avoid country of origin labels by bringing the goods in via Europe or claiming them as "sub-assemblies" (i.e. two carabiners that are clipped to a draw are a
sub-assembly and hence don't say they are made in China, Taiwan or wherever and you are left thinking they are made in Europe).
As stated BD is proud to have created our own ISO-certified, owned, staffed, managed and trained operation in Asia. Our customers are the big beneficiaries here.
Thanks for the opportunity to state the facts,
THE EMPLOYEE OWNERS OF BLACK DIAMOND EQUIPMENT
Peter Metcalf
CEO/Co-Founder
Wow, my colon hasn't seen that much sunshine since Mark came to visit. So your supply chain is currently unchanged. Forgive me for wondering how long you'll bother with the inefficencies of shipping low level, low cost components across the ocean. twice. That is, unless you need some supply ineffeciencies to rationalize for why your cams still sell for $70 a pop retail.
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I want my quadrant home. It's handbuilt to look like everything else in the subdivision, errr, yuppie trailer park.
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no, nor any brains in Canada
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um, yeah, that was the only reason we suceeded.
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how about some Thai fishermans pants? they fit you
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What absolute bullsh*t.
You already buy a number of products that you don't worry about that are produced in China, like your computer.
Huh, I don't trust my computer with my life.
And I don't trust anyone who believes in ISO - the only people who do are management and sale dipshits who've never made anything in their life.
And I don't think Chinese made products are inherently bad; but as the sign of a costcutting company often are so.
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I'm a big fan of capri pants - just make sure they showcase your package.
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Maoists bad.
For who? For Nepalese, probably. For people willing to go to Nepal, good, because they substantially decreased the number of foreign tourists.
Cheap. "Unknown & Authentic". Safe. You can only pick two of the three.
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I'm not sure that one can make a factual case that rich people who fly to isolated resorts and drink cocktails from coconuts on private beaches, or the hordes disgorged from cruise-ships are less beneficial for the countries they visit than the backpacker set.
The main difference I noted, particularly in Indonesia, is that the luxury resorts required substantial bribes be paid to corrupt officials for construction and operation and were often owned by dummy fronts of corrupt officials. In at least one case the resort was constructed on land seized without compensation from locals. Large scale graft on every level, and the local workers were paid less than they would be otherwise (the resort jobs seemed to be mostly people from other islands who'd migrated).
At that level the tourist staying in a several room family owned and run guest house and eating at a family owned restaraunt is encouraging entrepeneurism at a local level and discouraging large scale corruption (the families likely pay bribes but thats a different scale of corruption).
I realize I'm a hedonistic hypocrite.
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yeah, money is the top reason people divorce.
I thought is was sex.....or lack of.
Thats why people have affairs. Or at least why men have affairs.
Dude, women have just as many affairs as men.
True, but for different reasons.
I know of at least one marriage that broke up because the wife had a woman on the side.....
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the most fun trips/sidetrips I took this year were done without consulting a guidebook or the interweb, completely seat of the pants.
I find "sustainable" and backpacking amusing. It's not a sustainable point in the travel development scale (unless you consider the mega hostels of the Aussie Gold Coast "backpacking"), it's not sustainable at an environmental level, and it's not sustainable on a personal finance level. It's just self indulgent tourism that doesn't put as much money into the pockets of locals. As such, live it up while the gettings good.
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I've asked the good people at telemarktips.com to weigh in on this issue olyclimber, you can await their expert opinion
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The "maoist issue" made Nepal cheaper, except for the Khumbu which was "safe" so all the Westerners flocked there.
It all depends on how much of a tightwad you are.
No, I won't give out information. The stupid, lazy, and credit card bearing have already fucked up the world enough
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Senor el Feck:
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And all the monkeys arent in a zoo
Every day you meet quite a few
So you see its all up to you
You can be better than you are
You could be swinging on a star
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you need a nice tool like pink to bolt shit
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yes. winter, come soon
Sustainable backpacking?
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