Jason_Martin
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Posts posted by Jason_Martin
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Did you really think i was serious?
Whether or not I thought you were serious doesn't matter. There are a lot of reactionary people on this website who take what they read to heart. The last thing we need is some dumbass who read something like that on a website, thought it was serious, and ends up burning down a portion of one of our forests...
Jason
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The problem which took place in Tacoma is due to the fact that ant hills exist underground. The fire finds its way into these ant hill tunnels and stays there. Even in major pacific northwest rainshowers some of these fires continue to smoulder only to spring up at an alternate location later on. Burning ant hills is a great way to cause a forest fire...
Jason
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They only check Black Velvet periodically. And when they check it, they are checking for people who are camping there. They do not check Black Velvet for late exit.
In the high season, the rangers will show up at midnight or later in the black velvet parking lot and will subsequently ticket everyone they find. This is not a problem for people who come out an hour or so after the "official" closing of the park.
Doing two grade IVs in two days is an entirely doable thing in Red Rock canyon. Many long routes in RR have short approaches. The difficulty for the first time visitor is understanding the approach directions and developing an eye for seeing the route from a distance. Though many approaches are under an hour, one may still get lost and add time.
To avoid approach problems, the new RR Super Topo book is the best book for a short focused visit. But if you plan on coming back over and over, the sometimes confusing Falcon Guide includes more routes.
If you are a moderately strong climber with an eye for approaches, two grade IVs are a reasonable goal.
Jason
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About ten years ago a kid burned an ant hill down by Fort Lewis. The fire was extremely difficult to put out and caused a great deal of dammage. The reason it was such a big deal was because the fire went underground. It kept popping back up and causing problems long after they throught they had put it out. Burning anything in the backcountry is a bad idea...burning an ant hill is a really bad idea.
Jason
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Intuition liners are great IF they are fit right. The "if" is huge. Many stores don't have employees who know how to fit them right. If they feel sloppy in the store, make them fit the liners again. If they're sloppy the second time, make them do it yet again. Make them do it until it's right, otherwise you will be hating life.
Alphas are nice light boots, but they have one problem. They don't have a full gusset inside them. The result is that if you use them a lot, the seal will start to decay. Eventually your feet will begin to get wet in slushy snow.
Invernos have the same problem as the Alphas. Civettas are nice. I don't have any experience with the Trango Extremes.
One other thing to consider is using toe warmers on extremely cold days. I've done this on Denali, Illimani, Huyna Potosi and on winter ascents of Rainier -- all of which can be extremely cold mountans. I naturally have cold feet so I'm constantly worrying about my toes. So far boots and overboots have never done as much for me as chemical toe warmers.
Jason
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There are a few sandstone formations up the road above the township of Liberty. These are poorly bolted sandstone climbs which have repeatedly had bolt hangers stolen over many many years of half-assed exploration. The area's pretty bad when you consider that Leavenworth is so close.
Jason
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I just wrote about this stuff in the Axe Length post.
But to answer a few questions... Butterfly knots in the rope work great. I've tested them many times and they work like a charm.
The problem with the knots is that on a single team rescue, either you will have to haul past the knots which requires a great deal of practice, or your partner will have to somehow prusik past the knots which is not impossible, but almost; especially if the rope has done what it is suppose to do and cut deeply into the lip of the crevasse catching on the knot.
Someone wrote that it is possible to pull a person out with a Z-pully by itself. While this is true, it is hard. A few years ago I lowered someone down a crevasse for ice climbing practice. The person was over sixty feet down and couldn't climb out. I hauled part of the time with a z and part of the time with a C-Z. Part of the reason I used a Z alone is because he was so far down, and the way the 6 to 1 works is that for every six feet you pull, they only move one foot.
That said, I got so tired I had to add the C to get the guy completely out of the hole.
Someone else asked what a T slot is. This is the slot you dig to bury a picket in the snow. The slot is shaped like a T.
I believe that with practice and proper training, travelling on a glacier with a two person team is totally acceptable. Crevasse rescue requires practice. Putting together a C-Z in the backyard every two years is not practice. Playing with the system multiple times each season in the snow is the only way to truly create a solid understanding of what to do when the shit really hits the fan...
Jason
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Yeah..... I don't know if I would trust a ski pole anchor. Exactly how would you do that if you were holding the weight of your partner? If you can't place the ski pole how can you place back-up anchors? Sorry, I am going to have to call "Shananigans" on you. I think that I will use the axe, and only the axe while on a rope.
Okay, we're getting from Axe Length into another issue entirely. The question about building an anchor is the same issue that you have with an axe in your hand.
When a person falls into a crevasse in a "normal" circumstance this is the order of events:
1) Arrest the fallen climber -- I'm not arguing that it is better not to have an axe, just that in some conditions it's not as important as in others. The arrest may happen because the rope cuts into the lip and a knot gets jammed or it may happen because you arrest with the axe.
The reality of an axe arrest of a crevasse fall is that a great deal of the arrest takes place with one's feet, not with the axe.
2) Once the person is arrested, the next thing is to build an anchor. On a three person team this is simple. One person holds the weight while the other person on the surface builds the anchor. With a two person team it's a little more complex.
The person on the surface will be holding the weight primarily with his or her feet. At which point, the axe may be laid down. An anchor with a fluke, a picket, an ice axe or a water bottle or whatever can be built at this point while the climber is holding the weight with his legs.
After the first anchor is built, one can clip the foot prusiks into the anchor, allowing the inital weight to be loaded onto the single piece anchor. After this the climber is free to move around.
Once the fallen climber's weight is on the first anchor, the climber on the surface can easily build a backup anchor, clipping it to the initial anchor.
Okay, that said... I usually use the axe, but seldom in the anchor. All I'm trying to point out is that a super long axe is overkill sometimes and that in low angle glaciers ski poles might be more acceptable.
Those who ski mountaineer often climb glaciers with ski poles in hand. Were there an accident, ski poles, skis whatever would be used as the anchor.
I hate throwing my creditials out on the web on this site, but I have seen these different techniques practiced literally hundreds and hundreds of times. And believe me, they work...
Jason
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Mountaineers have published a new book with the title "Expedition Planning."
For Denali you want a huge pack. You are going to have to carry a pile of junk from 14 to 17 and no matter the size, most people still end up strapping crap to the outside of the pack...
Jason
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A valid reason for an axe that doesn't have to be short is your typical glacier slog. For this use, having it be able to reach the ground (on whatever angle you choose to use it) helps give some stability when you are tired. It would be very frustrating to have an axe that is super short and have to carry it in the hand yet never get to touch the ground.
If your using your axe to lean on when tired, you will often encounter a problem. This is that the axe often gets pushed into the snow and forces you to lean over significantly. Leaning over does not allow a lot of air into the lungs.
Some would argue that this is a reason for a long axe... Maybe. But once again, the ski pole will help you to stand up straight and allow the support needed. Standing up straight is very important on high altitude mountains as it allows you to get the most oxygen available.
Should you have to self arrest while holding a ski pole, something has oviously gone wrong. You can easily drop the pole in favor of the self arrest position.
This particular set-up is extremely common on mountains with real altitude issues.
The premise here is that if you are on a glacier and roped, your ability to stop not only affects you, but your partners that you are roped to. For that reason, when you want to safeguard in crevassed terrain, a ski pole even if it has a whippet is not sufficient for a self-arrest with more force. A ski pole also isn't adequate for constructing a snow anchor either.Conditions conditions conditions dictate what is sufficient and what is not sufficient for self arresting a person who has fallen in a crevasse. When the snow is deep a crevasse fall has very little impact on the team at all. I've seen crevasse falls on a two person team where the surface person doesn't even have to go into self arrest before the friction on the lip of the crevasse stops the falling party.
On the other hand in icy conditions, I've seen people launched through the air like a ragdoll while taking the load of a person falling into a crevasse while practicing.
In snowy conditions on a route like the sulphide glacier it is perfectly appropriate to tie a few butterfly knots in the rope between members of the rope team and then to walk up the glacier using poles. Butterfly knots work extremely well in stopping the rope from continuing down into a crevasse with a person on the other end.
I've seen the butterfly knot technique in action many times. It works very well. The problem of course is that the person in the crevasse either has to prusik past knots or the person on the surface will have to haul past knots.
As far as making an anchor... You can build a snow anchor out of anything, ski poles included. The most important aspect of an anchor is to back it up with other items.
In one experiment in late season snow, we tied a cordellete to a power bar, buried it, work hardened it, and then weighted it. It took four people bouncing on it to blow it out. The conditions were such that this bar would have worked as an anchor.
Of course an axe or a picket or a fluke is better for an anchor. I'm not saying you shouldn't carry these things, but instead that a super long axe is not that great. And that a short axe can be used with a pole in certain conditions. I'm also saying that in some conditions, it is also acceptable to keep the axe stowed. As I said above conditions dictate everything...
Jason
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Often on low angle terrain, I'll walk with my axe in one hand and a ski pole in the other...
Jason
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To start with, one thing should be made clear. The primary purpose of your axe is not as a "walking stick." The primary purpose of extendible trekking poles is as walking sticks.
Your axe has a number of purposes, first and formost as a tool for climbing. On super low angle glaciers (20 degrees or less) where your axe hangs from your hand to your feet, perhaps a long axe is acceptable. But that type of length is not realistic for climbing.
The primary purpose of the tool is to ascend steep terrain. This may be done by swinging the tool above your head with your hand at the base of the shaft. In this scenario serious length hinders your ability to place the axe effectively.
A second way to ascend is by using the axe in one of the three dagger postions. A long axe will work here, but may become annoying.
A third way to climb is in the so called "Self Belay" position. This is where you insert the shaft of the axe into the snow while holding onto the head. If the snow is steep enough for this, a long axe will require a lot more effort to place than a short axe.
A fourth way to ascend is by chopping steps with your adze. If the axe is long on steep terrain you will not be able to hold the base of the axe effectively and as such will be making ineffective chopping swings with your hand somewhere up the shaft closer to the head. A long axe may also throw you out of balance in this situation which would be very bad.
The secondary use of the axe is for self arrest. And once again a long axe may be unwieldy here. If you do not hold the base of the shaft you may lose control of it, thus impaling yourself. I've seen a lot of people hold the shaft in the wrong spot, making it more likely that they will get hurt... This occurs less often with a shorter axe.
Another arguement for the short axe is that when you ascend mountains with short sections of rock, it's nice to holster your axe or slide it between your pack and your back while you use your hands. Holstering a long axe is just dumb because it will get in your way. You could probably still put it between your back and your pack.
A last arguement is that a big fat long axe is heavy.
My feeling is that if the glacier is low angle enough to warrant a super long axe, perhaps ski poles would be better. If that makes you nervous, get whippets for your poles.
Jason
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That movie was utter crap. Supporting movies like this just allows Hollywood to bring us more half-assed scripts that are predictable and unrelentingly bad pieces of work.
Every now and then we get a decent horror movie. The last couple years have provivided some nice Zombie movies without the Rob behind them. 28 Days Later and Dawn of the Dead were both engaging, funny at times and terrifying at others. House of a 1000 Corpses is the type of movie that barely holds your attention while stealing -- not borrowing -- from other successful horror films. In other words, the movie is crap. A huge steaming pile of crap.
Jason
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I wouldn't take little kids into the Alaska wilds or anywhere near a backcountry salmon-choked stream. However, I would take little kids hiking in the cascades without a firearm. The vast majority of the people you see with kids in the northwest hiking, are not carrying firearms.
In the Northwest, there are a lot more gun injuries and fatalities than evidence that guns saved someone from a wild animal. I'm not saying that you, Bug, are an irresponsible gun owner. But there are a lot of them out there, and many of them have only the faintest idea of how to take care of themselves in the backcountry.
Another annecdote about my years as a fish habitat surveyer.
We were down in a creek bed in Northern Idaho, a place with A LOT of guns and a lot of lunatics as well. In any case somebody shot toward us from the woods above. We started yelling that we were people until we heard some idiot yell, "sorry."
Most of the places we hike and climb in the northwest are bereft of animals that want to mess with a person. I worry a lot about people either killing an animal that was not a threat -- something else I witnessed in Alaska -- or injuring or killing another person on accident. The cascades are full of people and there is almost no evidence to support the need for a firearm in them...
Jason
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I used to do fish habitat surveys on remote creeks in Alaska when the salmon were running. On an average day we saw anywhere from one to five bears. On our survey team we carried one gun and everybody carried bear spray.
However, in the hundreds of bears we were around over the years not one attacked or charged. You got the feeling that both the gun and the bear spray were there simply to make you feel safer, the reality being that if one of those monsters came flying out of the woods and began to maul you, neither the gun nor the bear spray would do much.
Over time we became comfortable in these animals environment. We weren't exactly pushing the limit like that bear researcher that recently got killed. Usually as soon as we saw a bear we would yell at it and inevitably it would jump out of the creek and run up into the woods until you passed by.
Would I travel in that environment without a gun? Sure, but I probably wouldn't leave the bear spray at home.
In the northwest, particularly in Oregon, Washington, and Southern B.C. it really is overkill to carry a gun. The amount of incidents listed in a previous post doesn't reinforce the case that one should worry about wild animals. Instead, because there were so few incidents it seems to indicate that carrying a firearm is nothing more than a nusiance in the northwest that could accidentially cause bodily harm to oneself or one's friends.
A week or so ago I saw a guy hiking up above the coleman glacier on Mount Baker on Heliotrope ridge. The guy was shirtless and in cutoff shorts. On his hip he carried both a large hunting knife and a pistol of some sort. Instead of looking like a competent hiker, able to take care of himself in the extremely unlikely event of a wild animal attack, he looked like a lunatic...
The places that most of us visit in the northwest have many many dangers aside from bears and cougars. The average guy who thinks he can tame nature with a firearm would probably do better leaving the gun at home and bringing a rain jacket or some other piece of real survival equipment.
Jason
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I've used snow flukes a lot. In conditions like those found in the cascades right now, snow flukes can be placed faster than a picket in a t-slot. However, flukes take practice. If you don't mess around with them enough to understand the how to place them well, then they're not worth carrying.
The disadvantage to the snow fluke is that they are not the most comfortable piece of equipment to carry on a harness. And in late season -- when you essentially have to pound them into the snow -- they are not all that useful.
I like pickets because they can easily be carried on a pack or on a sling over the shoulder...
Both items have their uses. It's not a bad idea to try to understand how to place both pieces quickly and effectively.
Jason
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A good project which was mentioned in a previous post but not dealt with in depth is the idea of making a single pitch climb multi-pitch.
The way to do this is to pick a low fifth class climb that is about a hundred feet or so. Climb up ten feet or so and build an anchor, then bring your partner up. Lead out again, placing a piece or two of gear between you and your last belay and then build another anchor. Do this over and over and over again, making your one pitch climb multi-pitch.
There are a few rules of thumb for this kind of excercise:
1) The instructional books require three pieces for a trad anchor. My experience is that one out of every three pieces for a beginning leader is bad. As such you should build anchors with at least four pieces to start.
2) Be sure to place at least one piece between each of the belay stations, even if they are very close together. The last thing you want to do is to take a leader fall onto the previous belay station.
3) Be sure the route is well within your climbing ability. You do not want to be sketching out while worrying about gear and the like.
4) Doing all this with someone with a lot more experience or with a guide will likely keep you from making an unnecessary trip to the hospital.
On the question of multi-pitch sport climbing... There are not that many multi-pitch sport climbs out there that are appropriate for a beginning leader. As such, it would be better to start on easy trad ground...
In any case, good luck...!
Jason
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word. thats what i was wondering...
also, do you know anything about changes being made by 2006 concerning guides working for accredited companies and AMGA involvement?
In theory companies will have to have a certain amount of certified guides in their given discipline to keep AMGA accrediation. You can read about the 2006 guidelines here.
Jason
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Lummox,
Yes, you're right. The post was somewhat about me. However, most others who have taken courses discover that they know far less than they thought they knew. Having taken a couple of courses and having guided full time year round, I do think I have a pretty good feeling for what's up with the average climber who moves into guiding.
Jason
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in order to join the AMGA as an individual member, i had to provide documentation of climbs that i had guided and show that i had been guiding for at least two years. and actually getting certified in a discipline is far more involved.
You can take the beginning courses without being an individual member.
Jason
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I've considered using some of my GI bill for the AMGA courses but from what I understand they are yet to me a standard. More a solid reference and a route to International certification and very expensive at that. Great article. Just reiterates why I want to try if for a season or two for fun and see if I enjoy it.
AMGA Certification is slowly making its way into the land owner mindset. There will be a point some years down the road when this is the norm and not the exception.
What's cool about the courses is that at about the time you usually start thinking about guiding, you have a gut instinct that you really know your stuff. Taking these courses forces you to see how much you don't know and how much more there is out there to the art of climbing. You learn an incredible amount...
Jason
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A lot of companies will hire you without major training. However, at the bare minimum you will have to have your Wilderness First Responder certificate to get a fair shake in the hiring process.
An AMGA course puts you at the head of the pack when companies are looking to hire a guide. First, it means that they don't have to put as much time in training you and second, it may move you up the pay scale a bit at the start.
For the cost I think an AMGA Rock Instructor Course or Beginning Alpine Guides Course is worth it. Even if you do not choose to continue guiding after a couple seasons, as a climber you will learn a tremendous amount from one of those courses.
Jason
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Just over a year ago, a friend and I were climbing a somewhat obscure route in Red Rock. We were in a rush and it was cold out. When my buddy leaned back on the rappel anchor and one of the three slings in the system broke, this sling was the only sling on one of the two bolts we were rapping off. The two slings on the other bolt held.
After the "incident" we looked far more closely at the slings we were rapping off. One of the two remaining slings appeared somewhat degraded. We cut this off and replaced the whole system.
In the parking lot we played tug a war with the slings and were able to break them!
The sun was the primary problem in our near accident. The slings had been degraded horribly by UV rays. Since this happened I've been far more liberal with leaving gear behind.
The question that you must ask when deciding what to leave is what is your life worth? Slings, biners, rap rings, whatever you need to leave...the moral of my story is not to rush and to check the anchors closely. Look carefully for damage on rap material that has been left by others.
Jason
Red Rocks - Grade IV
in Climber's Board
Posted
Mr. Layton may be exagerating the descents a bit as he and I encountered a three hour descent off Wilson. But we were tired, out of water and it was quite hot out, so presumably it could be done faster.
From the summit of Wilson, walk west dropping slightly to the right. Eventually you will encounter the area where the limestone meets the sandstone. Continue a short distance further, watching the sandstone formations to your right. Eventually you will see a formation that looks exactly like a volkswagon bus sitting atop a pillar. The descent gully can be found beside this. Once at the base of the gully, descend down Oak Creek Canyon back toward the end of the loop road.
Though I've only done this once, I suspect that because I've done it before I could easily shed a great deal of time off our prior three hour endeavor.
Jason