forrest_m

"always look around the corner" one of my regular partners is fond of making up variations on the "if we only had some ham we could have some ham and eggs if we had any eggs" quote at cold bivys

Office Space - I know you consider yourself the aggrieved party here, but I hope you will read this with an open mind. You seem to have a sense of entitlement that is not really merited. What do you mean when you say it is *your* thread? Who are you speaking for when you say that someone's comments "aren't welcome here?" How can you berate lambone for sarcasm *after* you tell him to "have fun climbing with bivy gear," a sarcastic comment if I've ever heard one? How can you seriously solicit additional beta after threatening to sue someone for what they've posted? My point is that you have contributed as much to the pissing match that led "your" thread astray as lambone. I'm not trying to chase you away, I just think you will get a lot less frustrated by the site if you recognize what it is and what it is not. The truth is that *none* of us have any rights here. Jon & Tim have taken a very hands off approach to moderating the board, and a certain kind of community has grown up here that has different social standards from a face to face conversation. Irreverance is highly valued and a hair-trigger temper is not.

http://www.tradgirl.com/rc/faq3.htm#middle

cm - i have used a pair of pulsars for many years (8 i think). last fall, i got 1 new axar, so for the last season i've been able to use it side by side with a bent-shaft pulsar. likes: swing is much more natural, no "flick of the wrist" required, therefore less tiring on long climbs. i much prefer the shape of the curve to either old-style pulsars or to a "continuous" curve like a dmm predator. extra clearance at the head makes pulling over bulges easier. hooking is more secure for the same reason. very durable. dislikes: the head is uncomfortable to use (compared to a pulsar or any black diamond tool) in "cane" or "dagger" position because the bulge of back of the pick jams into your palm. there is no good way to grab the head (except using the adze in "self belay" grip)this is annoying on alpine routes that vary in angle, less so on waterfalls. i like to grab the heads of both tools for motoring up moderate angled alpine snow or ice. it's harder to hammer pitons and stuff because the hammerhead is angled away from the shaft. this is minor. kind of a nitpick, the picks of pulsars and axars are not really interchangeable, even though they are essentially identical, because the holes are at different angles. so if you don't upgrade both tools at once, you have to carry two spares or accept that when you put the axar pick on the pulsar that the angle will be wrong.

I know it's last minute, but anyone want to do an alpine route this weekend? W. Ridge of Eldorado or something similar? email me at: forrest_m@hotmail.com

i was just talking to bryan in the gym the other night about this, there are in fact 2 bolted lines, 'northwest passage', which shares some belays with the old doorish aid route, and 'vanishing point', which is newer. bryan said he was still working on trying to do VP in a single push (he had done all the moves, but hadn't led the whole thing free in one go). NP has several .12 pitches, VP sounds like is significantly harder. bryan has been working the route by hiking up to the top of baring with 1500 feet of rope, rapping down and solo-tr'ing the moves because the "approach" pitches are still (as of last week) very wet. he said the hard pitches are "sport bolted" but there are many pitches that require some or all gear placement.

i've heard that "most dangerous part of a climb is the drive" statistic since i started climbing (i've used it to reassure people, too), but i'm pretty suspicious of it now. i mean, what are we comparing here? total hours of each activity? climber/days vs. driver days? rock climbing, ice climbing, alpine climbing, top roping, kids rappelling with clothesline, what? the example of the squamish road just emphasizes this: obviously it is much more dangerous than the "average" piece of highway. regarding the SO issue, my wife (who climbs but doesn't consider herself a "climber") was pretty casual about me going out until the first time i came back from a climb wrecked (after a 30 hour continuous-push winter climb). now she wants to know how what i'm planning to do compares to that climb. if i say it's easier, she doesn't worry too much, if i say "well...", then she gets nervous.

so here's a conversation starter... what's do you guys/gals do about reassuring worried significant others? when i first started climbing as a teenager, i used to assure my mom that climbing was "perfectly safe." now, i try to be more honest with my wife, you know "well, it is dangerous, but we do everything we can to make it safer", but sometimes i can tell she'd rather have me tell her that it was safe as golf. i also have come to an agreement that she is not supposed to worry until noon on the day after we are due back. any thoughts?

did this route in, whoa, must be '86 or so when I was green like lettuce... even then, the torment basin trail was considered overgrown, i can't imagine what state it must be in now. we came in from boston basin, which made for a long-ish traverse in the morning, but was convenient on the descent, since we did about 4 raps directly back in to boston basin from the notch below the summit. <warning, newbie epic story follows/> we were so slow and made so many route finding errors that we ended up rapping in the dark. the last rap is actually overhanging for the last 60 feet or so, and when our ropes got stuck when pulling, we finally just gave up and left them there.(hell, they could still be there for all i know) we spent an extra night in the basin and hiked down in the morning. i was 15 at the time, and it was the first time i'd ever been overdue from a climbing trip. by 7 am, my mom had alerted the rangers, the sheriff, the national guard, etc. so embarassing... <end newbie epic>

hey "W" - what are you doing posting on CC? does this mean that it's raining in the kichatnas? or are you guys all quokka-enabled and shit?

yossarian - cavers are in general a lot more secretive and clannish than climbers. part of it is that their resources are very limited and they have serious access issues. it is also very easy for non-technically trained folk to end up in situations over their head, so they try to keep a low profile. a lot of them also just get off on being one of the few people "in the know." who knows, maybe it's something to do with being underground, all those tunnels make people secretive... grottos are loosely organized clubs whose main purpose seems to be being a repository of accurate cave surveys. (caving still is in some ways like climbing was a century ago, "recreational" caving is not considered respectable without some quasi-scientific agenda such as surveying... besides, it's the only way to know whether you're setting new records and for cavers, "opening" new passage is like putting up a first ascent) anyway, as of last fall there are no gates on the 3 caves I mentioned in my earlier post, they are protected by being difficult to find... btw, i'd agree with dwayner that being a long-time climber, i expected caving to be no big deal, and found it to be really fuckin' scary. it can be very cool, but take it seriously.

a friend of mine asked mike gauthier (head climbing ranger at MRNP) about conditions on the route last thursday or friday, mike said he thought the route was probably out of condition now, that the couloir above the high camp was more rock than ice and the liberty cap glacier was very broken up. (i'm not saying don't go, just be prepared for less-than-ideal conditions... taking into account the "rangers lie" thread :-)

from what i understand, the newton cave has only been "pushed" to its lowest point relatively recently, and only by a few people. from what i've been told, it entails 4 fairly long raps (with all the attendant hauling in of ropes to fix) and several more "nuisance rappels". the "hell hole" cave is not very extensive, but involves rapping in through a squeeze slot in through the roof of a bell shaped cavern. "cascade cave" is quite deep and has at least one *very* narrow squeeze but no required rope work. there's a lot of sinkholes and slots up there, but you'll know you're in a hole that goes somewhere if at or near the entrance you run into one of those national speological society signs. (if you go exploring, remember a) it's cold and wet down there regardless of the weather b)bring 3 sources of light and c) your body is narrowest with one hand over your head and the other along your side...)

Peter P - I have some of your kind of aliens (retired) a set of new-style. To answer your questions: the new nylon sleeve really does seem to protect the trigger cables (I assume when you say "cables about to break" you're referring to the trigger cables and not the main stem...), I think what happens is that since the trigger cables are so close to the stem, they get rubbed against the rock a lot (compared to the "outrigger" trigger cables on most cams), and therefore the nylon sleeve helps out a lot. The springs that fit inside the cams are half the reason to have aliens - it's the feature that makes them fit into smaller placements. So I'd say, yeah, the new ones are a huge improvement. Before I became an alien convert, I had managed to acquire a double set of metolius small cams, but now they are strictly for multiples - I'll always grab the Alien first...

sorry, no snow at all left, only hateful talus and scree. (as of last weekend)

aliens! aliens! aliens!

i.e. pushing pencils, perhaps...? i'm an architect... fairly flexible hours 'cause there's only 8 people in my office and i did manage to talk my boss into letting me take 3 months off earlier this year to go climbing...

Jerry - the deep canyon like ravine is known as the "imperfect impasse" also known as the most bizarre geological feature in washington. (Any geologists out there who can explain what happened here?) For those who don't know it, imagine that someone ran a giant router down the side of the mountain, making a square-sided trench 100 feet across and 75 feet deep that runs maybe 1500 vertical feet down the steep slope. It is not as hard to pass as it looks. Scramble up the (climbers) left margin to right where it merges with the cliffs of whatcom peak. A set of small ledges traverses across the wall into the bottom of the slot, low fifth class. Five or six years ago, there were two fixed pins on this traverse, and roping up may be a good idea, since it's often wet. There are many routes up the other side. The best is slightly uphill again, look for rap slings on the far lip and climb up a slot/chimney directly below them, 5.5 or so. There is an easier but more exposed ramp about 200 feet downhill that exits onto the bare slabs (there's usually a small waterfall over there, too). Early season snow makes this whole thing easier. Getting across the impasse is a bit of a nuisance, but believe it or not, this really is the easiest way into challenger. BTW, do not camp right on the other side (the perfect pass side) of the impasse! The first time I went in there (on a Labor Day weekend!!!), in the middle of the night there was a huge avalanche (hanging glacier collapse?) somewhere way high up on Whatcom Peak that scoured that whole side of impasse with a 10-minute blast of debris that partially filled the impasse with snow and left 30-40 foot piles of snow all the way up the east margin. I don't know if this was a once-a-century freak occurance or what, but if you want to camp below perfect pass, make sure you get half a mile or so past the impasse!

The fifth force experiments were trying to determine if there was a force acting contrary to gravity, so they were dropping spheres of equal size but different mass and seeing if it made a difference that they were doing it in the presence of such a large, dense mass (the granite - that's why they were in the cave in the first place). Kind of like Galileo in reverse. I always imagined that if you went wandering into that tunnel, sooner or later you'ld fall down a vertical shaft and there you'ld lie, forgotten for 10 million years...

i have some glacier gloves, and i like 'em... but they are shredding fast, like all neoprene gloves. (even putting on other gloves for raps...) those dry tool gloves seem nice but are *way* too expensive for a glove that's going to last half a season. actually, i've found the best glove solution for mixed/ice routes are those bright orange "hot hands" gloves, i think the primary user group is deep sea fishermen? not quite as dexterous as the glacier gloves, but warm, waterproof and... $10 a pair. they wear out just like neoprene, but since they don't cost $40-60, it's not a big deal. available at outdoor & more and those stores around fisherman's terminal that sell foul weather gear and such. i also usually carry a pair of big fat mittens for belays/etc.

I would agree that you have to take a the advice you receive from rangers with a huge grain of salt, but you have to see it from their side. I climb pretty regularly with a couple of MRNP rangers, and the stories they tell about the freds who come up the mountain... if a guy shows up at camp shurman, say, wearing jeans and a flannel shirt, carrying nothing more than a "survival knife", they actually have no legal way to prevent him from continuing up. However, they're the ones who are going to have the unpleasant and possibly dangerous job of dealing with the mess if he does get into trouble. So their only means of preventing this is to exaggerate the dangers. I'm not saying it makes it right, just understandable. I think the rangers just assume that if you know what you're doing, you'll use your own judgement. On the other hand, giving out wrong information (road openings, etc.) is bullshit but probably no more endemic than in any other government bureauacracy. In North Cascades, I've found the most accurate info. is usually from the seasonal employees, not the full-time rangers, since they're usually there because they want to spend the summer in the mountains. You just have to be choosy - there are lots of kinds of rangers. The climbing rangers at rainier are pretty hard core climbers, while the guy at the desk in Longmire might be a nature trail coordinator from boston... Best info from rangers: the info desk at the icefields centre, in the canadian rockies. The people in the jasper ranger sta. didn't even know where we could buy a map; at the IC, they made us a photocopy of theirs (for free). They waive the backcountry permit fee for climbers. They were knowledgable and friendly. After the third time we went in (over a 2 week trip) the ranger even styled us out with a free campsite. How cool is that? [This message has been edited by forrest_m (edited 06-29-2001).]

Anatol Boukereev - The Climb: You real dumb, west media make me look bad, hurt feelings. My side of story much better. (pls. ekscuse my speling) Jim Wickwire - Addicted to Myself: Look at me, I managed to find a balance between ambition and family by neglecting my family, killing my climbing partners and driving my children away. Fred Beckey - Challenge of the North Cascades: You young whippersnappers don't know how good you've got it. Why, when I was young, we used to walk to the climbs from Seattle - uphill both directions. We would put our tennis shoes *on* for the hard pitches. I remember one time... Jeff Long - Angels of Light: Drug plane crashes in the Yosemite backcountry and enterprising camp 4 dirtbags get rich, until columbian villians start tossing people off the top of el cap. (Loosely based on a real event...) Actually, this one is a pretty good summer read.

you can easily haul packs on the *gendarme*, as it is pretty straight and steep. better, though, if you can do the whole route with a single backpack carried by the second - saves a lot of time and fuss.

not a burger joint, but the next time you're on your way back from smith, check out the "tacos y mariscos" restaurant in madras. (i don't know the real name, but it has the words "tacos y mariscos" painted on the roof in huge letters. it's actually a grocery store that also serves food, and it's the best mexican grub north of the border. the first time we were there, in the middle of our meal, enjoying the beers that we fetched ourselves from the fridge in the store, the old lady from the kitchen came out and *demanded* that we each purchase one of the fresh pork tamales she had just pulled out of pot. well, who were we to argue? all i can say is... wow.

Well, I kind of like a lot of the words mentioned so far (where i come from, they're called "synonyms" rather than "jargon"... I mean, come on, dime edge is actually pretty descriptive.) But Pope, you'll appreciate this, at sport crags, when someone has failed to the point of not being able to continue on their "project", they call down to their belayer "dirt me," to be lowered to the ground. perhaps it is their subconscious shame at this kind of climbing, that they feel dirty?