JoeR
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Went to Smith last week, counted around 5 highlines stretched around the Park, including one on Monkey Face. 1 of them had a person on it during the time we were there.
Some of them have been up for a while, like the one across the gully right of Amphetamine Grip.
Is this something that is gonna cause rangers to crack down on fixed lines? Random hikers and tourists were definitely noticing them, feelings seemed mixed at best.
Since highliners are using the slackline as the only thing to catch them if they fall, are these lines getting degraded enough by UV that we are going to see some deaths?
Is leaving lines up the standard at other areas that people like to highline, such as Moab?
Last time I stayed at the bivy there were some long term slacklines up there as well, some stretched across normal campsites and trails. Kinda dickish.
Are slackliners going to be able to manage themselves as their user group grows? I really hope their carnival doesn't cause the rangers lose their chill and toolify.
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Looks like you had fun putting this up, looks like a cool area.
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That graphic sums up the continuum pretty well Greg.
I do worry that it oversimplifies the process of bolting. Developing should be more than rolling a tape measure down a section of rock. Well bolted routes rarely have regular bolt spacing. It's all about bolting intelligently. Really agonizing about where the bolts should be going before they get placed since once they go in there is no going back.
Good and classic routes seem to share some common characteristics. Here are a couple that I've thought of, other folks probably have more ideas.
1: Follows the natural line.
Maybe the natural line goes at a grade easier than you wanted, but man you really wanted to put up that harder line. Don't let your ego wreck what could have been a classic. Years down the road your ego will thank you, because people will remember that classic and seek you out and praise you. You get nothing for putting up another forced soon forgotten line.
2: Bolt position makes sense.
Are you planning the bolt positions for places that protect the cruxes adequately? How about the clips? Is the crux of the route going to be making awkward clips, or do the clips make sense in the sequence of moves?
3. Makes you say "Wow, that was fun"
The fun factor can't be overstated. What makes your potential route special? Does it visit a fantastic place? Maybe the moves are really great. Point is, why put all that effort into developing if the route isn't going to be memorable?
Until you find that/those special line/s, there is always tons of trail maintenance and anchor replacement to do. Both are great ways to make friends with everybody, no matter their bolting ethics.
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Just get a can of this to wash down all that cake mix
should lube up your gi tract just right so the mix can make it out the other end before it causes too much damage. Might want to install a seat belt on your toilet to prevent liftoff though.
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So, when there are bolting issues in Oregon, particularly W OR what do you see your role to be? Or if it is someone elses responsibility, who's is it if not yours? What has worked to resolve bolting issues and what has not? For instance at Flagstone why were the bolts on Vortex thinned out while the 9+ bolts added to Toy Box remain?
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I haven't and won't chop the bolts on Toybox for a few reasons, chief among them is that it was retro bolted with permission of the FA team. None of the 3 in the FA team chopped them. Why should I impose my ethics if Corvington,Modrell, and Cornell could deal with the bolts?
The route not only escaped the chop from the FA team, but other route developers. There were a lot of routes getting put up in the past decade. Their decision making process is more well informed than mine, and I don't chop as an extension of my respect for them.
I've only spent maybe 30 minutes on stewardship in the years I've been going to Flagstone. The first steps in taking more active ownership of the crag would be to sweat it out taking care of the trail, scrubbing lichen, or what have you. I've a long way to go to even make a dent in the amount of sweat the Tvedt family has poured into stewardship around Oregon.
Sure, I complain about Tvedt bolting practices. It has become somewhat of a dark joke whenever it comes up, which is rarely. Point is, I would rather spend energy on getting better so I can climb the proud routes than worry about another bolt-sprayed slab that has nothing to do with me.
I agree with Luvshaker's answers. He is the only person so far in this discussion who has developed at both ends of the bolt spectrum(Moolack+Flagstone) AFAIK. The other interesting thing, is that I've never heard anyone bag on his ethics or attitude, or claim that he puts his ego ahead of the community.
I think all styles are relevant and make climbing part of what it is, even the clip ups. -
Even though you want the discussion to not be about Flagstone, it has some very poorly bolted routes right by intelligently bolted routes. It also has a few squeeze jobs and poorly installed bolts to round out the story. I'd rather not trash on people I haven't met so I won't name names or call out specific routes. The routes are there, and most of us know which ones they are. Where the line was crossed is pretty clear and we shouldn't let our friendships with people blur that line.
Everybody makes mistakes here or there, but it sure seems to me like people decide what they are going to do and then figure out how to justify it to the community. The person(s) then can feel that their bolting ethic is fine and dandy, however grudgingly the community accepted the route. Throw in some hubris and a cult of personality and good luck having a frank discussion about a route someone has bolted.
Chopping a route shouldn't have to be the only control mechanism for overzealous bolting. Nobody wants the ugliness of a bolt war, but that doesn't mean that certain bolting practices are accepted within the community. It just means that people would rather deal with the insane bolting/new routing than divide the community of climbers.
There are lines all over the place which could be climbed, but does every crag really need another bolt sprayed 5.easy slab climb? Does every area need a guidebook? Does every boulder need a good scrubbing and problem, with before and after pictures online for land managers to see? Does every person need to see their name in a guidebook to feel good about themselves as a climber?
Maybe the answers lie in challenging my ethics to be acceptable to the community rather than challenging the community to roll over so I can do it my way. I see this relationship as the distillation of the ethics discussion we will be having in the years to come as we try to manage a limited resource with more and more people. How important is the individual really?
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I regularly use hand sanitizer or 90% or stronger rubbing alcohol to remove doug fir sap from my skin and clothes.
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As some of you may know, stabilization work is currently being done @ the Columns. For this phase there is only a partial closure. When this work is completed we will be moving on to the next phase which will include a closure of the entire Columns+parking lot. The dates scheduled for this phase are September 22 through September 30, and of course all construction schedules are subject to change.
The overall idea is to stabilize the shifting climbing columns as much as possible, as well as clear off some of the loose stuff to the right of Limpdick. This area will be rescreened and the goal is to reopen the entire columns for climbing, much like it was before the big slide a couple winters ago.
Any questions can be sent to Roger Bailey at The River House 541-682-6323 or posted here and I will make sure they get where they need to go.
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Wasn't this guy implicated in a meth manufacturing and distribution ring not too long ago?
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I'm happy. Thank you.
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Your sig picspam is getting a bit old now Bill.
Mods, any way to disable viewing sigpics, or the ability to use them? Pretty obvious it is being abused.
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Great book by Harvery Manning called Backpacking: One Step At a Time. Has a huge section on backpacking with kids. Should be easy to find a cheapo paperback copy in your area in the used bookstores or local library. If you can't find it let me know and you can have my copy.
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Don't forget hard candy like jolly ranchers for hypoglycemia and emotional crisis.
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You located close to Eugene?
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I guess taking a kill picture is just hard for me to understand. Having been raised with hunting as a normal part of life, most of the pictures people took were of scenery or people. Taking a kill picture of a deer would be like taking a kill picture with a cow or something. I'm not saying that it is wrong, just different from my experience of what hunting is all about.
Of course there was one distant cousin who had some mounted heads in his house, but we all made fun of him for wasting money on the taxidermist. He was awful sensitive about his mounted heads though. Especially the huge elk mount straining the load-bearing capacity of the living room wall in his double wide. Come to think of it, he had a bunch of posed kill shots as well.
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Rabbits are super tasty, plus being super easy to raise and cook they make a great family food source.
Squirrels are tasty as well, cook like a leaner version of rabbit.
Check out how this restaurant in Britain does it up with the squirrel. Featured on The F Word.
Still no explanation of the posed death gallery photos though. Bill took a whack at it, but I'm still not getting it.
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I've tried for years to understand the idea behind posing with your kill. I've always wondered the purpose. If it is to showcase the animal, a shot of it live would work better I think as well as requiring more hunting skill. Posed photos are less creepy than taxidermied trophies on your wall, but still... can someone please explain this to me?
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If we are flipping leads, the follower never clips into anything, they just hang on the reverso and I'd steal their belay device and put them on lead belay with it.
Are they then going to belay you with a munter on the next pitch? Or is this assuming that this is the topout pitch?
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Like everything else in climbing it comes down to making situational decisions. 2 QD's work great sometimes, using the rope works great as well. Cordalettes? Equalettes? Magic X w/limiter knots? Quad? etc etc etc. They all work, and they all shine in different situations.
The only thing that really comes to mind is that since I've been practicing my self rescue skills is that not having cord handy sucks, and anchoring off the rope in this situation sucks as well. Of course you can always cut the rope, but once again, being prepared for the little stuff can make the difference between a bad day or a minor hiccup.
When I am honest with myself I learn that the reason I didn't climb a route or fell at a crux has nothing to do with whether or not I'm carrying 300g extra or 3 too many carabiners. Almost every time it comes down to something else, like not committing to the move, or getting trolled on climbing forums when I could be training.
You can make your anchor safe and fast with a minimum of equipment, as well a self rescue... but what we are really talking about here is convenience.
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It all really depends on the type of climbing you are doing. Swinging leads? Bolted or gear anchors?
There are tons of anchor building methods out there, from just using the rope to hyper-engineering with cords/slings. Each has its uses, and logistical issues. You'll find them discussed ad nauseum here and every other climbing forum you can find.
Keep in mind that having spare cord can really come in handy. Being able to put your follower into a haul/assist system in <5mins can make a huge difference in the way the rest of the day/climb works out. It can make the difference between a bad day and a small speedbump in the climb.
I carry my spare cord wrapped around my waist2x as my chalkbag belt. Sometimes I carry 2x anchors, sometimes I use the rope, sometimes slings, sometimes equalette, sometimes cordalette, sometimes draws+1locker. All depends really.
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Here's the latest update:
Talked with a civil engineer with the Public Works Department today, as well as a couple other people who are working on this stuff. Super cool people, with a strong focus on getting things right.
They have a plan for dealing with the loosened rock at Skinner's, as well as the wire mesh netting on the hillside. They hope to be able to get the area safe enough to completely remove all the chain link fencing around the base, as well as pretty things up.
They asked that we have some patience and don't take matters into our own hands or violate the closure. Public Works has made this project a priority.
I will be looking into more options for interested climbers to get together and help Public Works, as well as ourselves. We have friends in Public Works most of us didn't even know about, lets do everything we can to build positive and lasting relationships.
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Thank you Mr. Shaker, that is the best laugh I've had from a CC post.
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Yea, I'd love to hear the logic behind the excavation?? Better crash pad spots?
There wasn't really supposed to be any excavation going on as far as I've been told, the contractor was just supposed to clear up the rest of the rocks laying around from the last slide. Since the city supervisor had to leave for some reason, the contractor was able to go hog wild with his tractor.
Great idea Chris, but since The Columns are put together like a puzzle, they'd be clearing a whole lot more than just those three pieces. It sounds like they are trying to figure out a plan of attack that is safe, easy, and cheap.
Let's hope that soon this historic climbing area is opened all the way back up, even if they have to peel off a couple columns to do it.
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I've always thought that if they would dynamite or something a hundred feet back into the cliff we might have a real crag on our hands.
But really
[img:center]http://cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/Columns_damage1.JPG[/img]
I've circled where the shifting supposedly happened when the contractor was getting jiggy with it. Since columns rest on this jumble of blocks there is some concern that something could shift or come down as well. Not likely, but still a concern for the city.
Also, it is always possible that since the contractor was the only one to witness the shifting as it was taking place that it was not nearly 2 ft and more like 2 inches.
BOLTS!!!!
in Oregon Cascades
Posted
Nice work Greg