Spencer

I stand corrected, if after I seen the original thread it didn't blame but rather discussed the importance of being prepared even going up to Muir, however I did see the post by the guy who brought up the weather report which clearly did call for terrible weather, which cancelled a trip my sons and I had planned to Rainier that Monday. and yes I seen the response, which was not to judge or make negative statement about them, I didn't know someone was banned over it. I tell you what if I am killed climbing I hereby give permission to anyone on climbers.com to discuss my death even critical mistakes I may have made, so that others might learn from my mistakes. and in turn anyone who sugar coats my mistakes may be held liable. there that should do it. Well headed up the DC tomorrow with my boys see your on the slopes.

There's no doubt it's easier to use the fixed lines. But you make it sound like there's just no other choice but to use them- trust them-with the absence of them as well as the lack of strength and/or skill to downclimb the route resulting in death. Nobody has the option to carry a rope and plan to rappel past steep sections? Sounds like a lot of not thinking outside the box. Hey chest puffer, I don't care how many decades you've been climbing, the fact is your definition of "depend on someone else" is personal and subjective. Depending on someone else is more often than not a choice, and when it's chosen without a backup plan, it's utter foolishness. I'm thinking some who attains "veterans status" on a climbing forum believes that holds some real world relevance. If pointing out that in my 30yrs of climbing I have yes in fact been in the apparently unusual spot of trusting other climbers, then yes I am a "chest beater". My point was you can't fault someone for expecting the ropes to be set up correctly, and as far as them freezing up and not moving because they were scared or didn't have the experience to down climb, I think the jury is still out on all the details.my understanding was in addition to the avalanche they ran out of oxygen which I am sure made decision making much more difficult. It's funny so many here are ready to judge this group of climbers , however in our own back yard a few months ago when that poor guy died of exposure just below Muir, ( sad story) No Body not one person on this site pointed out that these so called experienced climbers went up on a day hike without so much as a emergency blanket on a day when the University of Washington forecast called for just what they got 45 mile an hour winds and blizzard like conditions. the Rangers said when he was found his clothes were wet and frozen, yet from the rangers on down nothing but silence, be careful about what you say their locals. but these climbers on the other side of the world on K2 we have no problem judging them. Belay OFF.

If on your descent you discovered the ladder gone, I would hope that you'd have the resourcefulness to figure out another way around the obstacle, as well as to evaluate the ladder's integrity in the first place. Of course I would be able to route-find my way back down if the ladder was gone or unsafe, that was not my point, but rather if you really have climbed a great deal there are many instances of having to trust someone else or rely on another climber, as I said even Ed Viesturs and Dave Hahn use those fixed lines and Dave on his last Summit of Everest commented on how much easier it was because so many had made a good route ahead of him. only those who haven't done much climbing would say they never have to depend on someone else, all I can say is "BELAY ON"!

As with the Everest tragedy there is no shortage of people to blame, As for fixed ropes, even Ed Viesturs and Dave Hahn wait for those ropes to be set up and much like the Everest Tragedy their set up ( or problems with) played a significant role. I hear the term inexperienced climbers quite a bit when something like this happens, by who's measure? did the others summit only two 8000 meter peaks and the ones making that statement four? or were they working at a desk all their life and just decided to climb K2 one day? I also have to put my trust in others while climbing, for example those above me to have the expiereince and common sense not to knock a basketball size rocks down onto me, or crossing a ladder on a Rainier crevasse set up and anchored by someone else. or my buddy's ability to recognize a indent in the snow if he is leading so as not to drag us in to a crevasse. I don't know maybe you guys climb different than I do and in my 30 yrs of climbing Ive been doing it all wrong.......could be. What makes me sick is the jerk who complained about the guy who fell or laid on his back and he responded by yelling at him to use his ice axe instead and watched him fall to his death, he then complained about inexperienced climbers. or Everest news dot com telling us we "should treat the death of a porter and Sherpa the same as a European or American", I have never seen a single instance of a American climber or Journalist minimize a death because he was a Sherpa or Porter. stupid statement.

you could have at least echoed my "coffee in Seattle" analogy took me 4 hrs to come up with that

If you move here I hope you don't limit yourself to just ice, a incredible amount of climbing is aways a short drive from anywhere here in the Olympics or Cascades. It's like asking if you know where you can get a good cup of coffee around here. : )

If I tell u not to bring crampons, it will freeze up, its always better to have more than less, as a death earlier in the year showed just below Muir and may have been avoided if they each had a emergency blanket at least. it sound like you might be a inexperienced climber, go to Climbing Ranger Mike Gauthier's web site www.mountrainierclimbing.blogspot.com and read everything. BE SAFE.

My wifes oatmeal choclate chip cookies, are a great source of energy and DELICIOUS! she makes some for me each time I go climbing, no more Gu, power bars etc.....

Although its always difficult getting details and the facts of a incident that high on any Mountain, alot of innuendo and assuming seems to be going on with the reporting, and this stupid statement made by www.everestnews.com "These men, while not American or European, have given their lives trying to save others and should be honored the same as if they were western climbers. What we can tell you at this point is one was a Pakistani Porter and one a Sherpa". I am not sure why the reporting on this event has to be confrontational or guess work, a Swedish report of this was even worse quoting one climber bad mouthing a guy who fell 300 meters after "laying on top of him on his back" trying to avoid a fall, the climber yelled "use your pick" and the climber fell to his death, he then went on about people with lack of expierence depending on other sources to get them up the mountain. I know to this day there are conflicting stories about the Everest tragedy and a great deal of finger pointing. maybe this is just a battle of the survivors ego's. IT SUCKS.

How Very sad, as prepared as a climber can be and sometimes its not enough, it's the most heartbreaking story I have read in years.

Re: Mt Daniel ,I was thinking the Glacier travel would be a good thing, assuming he is going with a group and has some basic skills, also some of the Guide services have guided climbs of local mountains aside from Rainier. Yes from squaw Lake past Peggy's pond has more mosquito's than anyplace I have ever been, even 30 years ago they were just as brutal. time always makes you forget how bad some trips can be. I was out looking for the latest mosquito repellent and clothing yesterday and nothing has changed in 30 years either. nothing.

Mt Danial 7900 ft tallest mountain in King County in the Alpine lakes area which has incredible views, Glacier rope travel, and a relatively safe climb, the one draw back is MOSQUITOS!!!! Ahhhhh, they drive me crazy, I have more than 50 bites through my clothes from a trip up there this last weekend ( past a few other climbers any cc.com folks) anyway aside from that it's a great beginners climb.

I wonder if this is a serious thread at all? are there some of you experienced alpine/rock climbers who go to supply stores looking for climbing information? I can't remember a situation where I needed a floor sales person's input on my climbing or what to bring or how to use it, is this where many of you bashing REI expect to get information? From Crampons to rope diameter I can shop without help, from now on instead of going to REI and asking questions, just post your questions here and go there with the confidence and backing of CC.COM : ) This entire thread dredged up from the past is lame, REI has a huge selection of many products, I get some gear there and shop around at other stores, but I never go to these places for Knowledge. Maybe at 45 im a little old school and could be missing something.

I called MSR regarding the new Reactor stove I had used only twice and it started spitting and sputterting and released a huge fireball ( basketball size) AHHHHHH! as I was trying to light it, with this stove their is no fixing it in the field, a MSR rep was very helpfull and offered to pay for all shipping replace it with no questions asked even though I had no reciept, I ended up taking it back to REI where of course they also took it back, the MSR rep called a little dissapointed that they couldn't deal with it. Two thumbs up for effort. hopefully REI didn't sell that stove, I did tell them the problem.

Mtn climber are we talking about the same Mountain? you apparently hang with a different crowd than I do. under 5 hrs from car to car is insane fast, not a little fast. "One time at band camp"..........