Phil Jones

G-spotter, is that your ugly wife in the pool? She may not be happy you posted her picture on the forum.

That's just an adolescent, ignorant response, IMO.

...life preservers. Get right Mr. WSSI. It's a personal flotation device. Semantics aside, do you wear one when you swim in a lake or river?

Not a good comparison. How many people who swam the English channel wore life vests? At higher levels of mountaineering and swimming, safety measures sometimes become optional. Plus, the life jacket will keep you afloat until you are rescued or you rescue yourself. The MLU offers no such safety net, there's too many "if's." If you took every possible safety precaution available to climbers nowadays for every possible contingency no matter how unlikely (which is essentially what you are suggesting), you would have too much weight to climb. Everyone has to draw a line as to how much risk they want to take. Wow, what is that like the 100th time that has been said? Not trying to sound like a jerk here, just a little exasperated at your persistence in an opinion that is not espoused by actual climbers (or swimmers). But, are the MLU's all that heavy and cumbersome? Also, it's not as if these three guys were on a day hike in warm weather.

Wrong! I am a former lifeguard and Water Safety Instructor who learned a long time ago that one can drown in a lake or river even if they are strong swimmers. Hypothermia, cramps, intoxication, current, etc are all factors that can cause a swimmer to disappear under the water surface. I have a 17' fishing boat and I don't step aboard it, nor do I allow my passengers aboard without wearing life preservers. I consider my life to be worth a relatively inexpensive piece of safety equipment.

Nope, not a troll. Not a climber, either. That's why I'm asking the obvious questions. Perhaps if MLU's were more easily available, smaller, cheaper and lighter, more lives will be saved. In the meantime, I would compare the carrying of an MLU to the wearing of a live vest when swimming in a lake. It's highly unlikely you'll need to rely on either, but if you do, you are better off having it than not. I suppose there will always be those who think accidents can't happen to them.

There is a HUGE difference between driving in one's car on public highways and climbing a snow covered mountain in early winter. Nonetheless, I always carry a cell phone, a CB radio, chains for all four wheels, flares, flashlights, tow strap, etc in my 4WD pickup year around. I have helped several people out of ditches and up steep hills. If I were a hunter (I'm not) and drove the mountain backroads of Oregon (I don't) in the fall and winter, I'd be sure to have a GPS unit and I wouldn't travel alone. I just don't understand the mindset of someone who takes the kind of risk involved in summiting Mt. Hood in the winter and doesn't take an MLU with them. Cell phones have been proven to be of intermittent value and after several days, no good at all due to battery life. Is there a logical reason to not take an MLU on a climb or is it just machismo?

So, is this the thread to ask the question "Why wouldn't mountain climbers, experienced or not, bring MLU's with them"?

No, I've only registered under Phil Jones.

In any case, I sincerely hope these three climbers are found alive and well today. I wish everyone the best of luck.

How many search teams have had to risk their lives searching for Barry Bonds? It's also a shame the climbers didn't pay closer attention to the northwest weather forecasts.

What a shame it is these experienced climbers didn't use the safer southern route and rent mountain locating units before their ascent. I hope no searcher gets injured or worse looking for them.