Phil Jones

Well, all I can say is if any of the search and rescue people get killed looking for these guys, there'll be plenty of public outrage about the failure to carry an MLU. I've forwarded a link to this thread to Lars Larson and he'll have plenty to say about your cavalier attitudes. Good night.

Of course not since I don't go in the ocean with my 17' BassTracker, LOL. I always wear my Stearns life vest and the engine cutoff lanyard is attached to it so if I fall overboard, the engine stops.

That was my first guess when I read his "sales" speil in his first post... spam... You're a troll.

Is this for real? Yeah, what's wrong with that scenario? What's so good about the situation they are in now?

If they'd had an MLU/PLB, they could have all stayed in one snow cave and been rescued more quickly. Duh.

An old, live tool.

Yeah, I just don't understand that line of thought. It seems overly selfish and irresponsible. After I read about the avalance potential in the "3 climbers" thread below, I thought those rescuers are literally risking thier lives in a very dangerous situation. I'm sure they are equipped with avalance alerts, but that would be little consolation if you're buried under 20 feet of heavy snow.

I have heard there are some very dangerous downdrafts near Mt. Hood that can cause an airplane to lose lift and plummet to the ground.

So, if you lost control of your motorcycle whilst speeding and crashed into a car killing the driver...if you slipped/fell while hiking and required medical assistance from SAR-Techs...if you banged your head on the ocean bottom surfing necessitating a life guard to come to your aid... I know your hypocritical holier than thou kind Phil. I always hiked and surfed with others who could have helped me. And, in nearly 40 years of motorcycling, I've never had an accident. That's because what I did, I did safely. Sure, accidents can happen, but that's why I wore a helmet, life vest and carried an emergency kit. So, call me what you will, but I hope I don't have to read about you dying in a snow cave on Mt. Hood some day.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions Phil, but you do come across like one of those fellows who is rather insensitive and lives life small and safe - I feel sorry for you. Actually, I have slowed down somewhat and I confess to enjoying my creature comforts more than I used to. But, I have ridden a motorcycle from Alaska (before the AlCan was paved) to the Midwest, to the top of Pike's Peak, across country and back and flown in small airplanes. I've hiked in California, Oregon and Washington wilderness areas. I've snowmobiled and skiid both downhill and cross country. I've body surfed in the ocean. But I can honestly say I have never endangered anyone else's lives by any of my actions.

Perhaps my defensiveness comes from having been attacked viciously here for having voiced my opinions. And, if I ever take an unnecessary risk that causes others to risk their lives unnecessarily, then I will expect to be criticised for it.

Actually, I'm not against climbing mountains. I just think those who do it owe it to themselves and the people who may have to rescue them to make it easy to locate them.

Doesn't this club/group promote the use of MLU's to out of state climbers? If not, why not? They should at least be made aware of the availability of them, IMO. And, one pound of dead weight may be cubersome, but I would think it would be a basic piece of survival gear. There have been times when I didn't want to wear my motorcycle helmet, but I was sure glad I had one on when a truck threw a rock up that hit and cracked the helmet, ruining it forever. It was a hot summer day and I'd have loved to feel the breeze in my hair.

Well, then, I suppose you won't be upset when some of the searchers get buried alive by an avalanche as they hunt all over the mountain for the missing climbers. I will. It will upset me to think it might not have been necessary had the climbers carried an MLU.

The MLU's were developed and made available to the climbing public shortly after the deaths of several young climbers in the Portland Episcopal School group many years ago. Was that just coincidental? I think not.

Well, I'm safe at home, nice and warm, typing on my computer. That's much better than being a human popsicle in my book.

I guess my point is that if climbers would lose some of their arrogant attitude against MLU's, it might not be necessary to send as many others up in dangerous conditions to hunt all over the mountain since they can be pinpointed. A small team of rescuers could bring them down much sooner. It's kind of the same mentality as those who won't wear "personal flotation devices" or seat belts in their cars. Helmets for bicyclists and motorcyclists have been shown to save lives, but there are those who scoff at them. But, like I said, to each their own. I prefer living well, then dying of old age.

"First, the statement regarding how the resucuers are coming down and if the climbers had an mlu with them that they would likely be coming down now as well, if not earlier this week is completely ignorant and disrespectful. Whether you believe they should have had one or not, I believe the statement demonstrated a great lack of compassion for EVERYONE immediately involved in the situation." I don't think my statement was ignorant and disrespectful at all. It was realistic.

I suppose it comes down to a matter of risk assesment and how much one is willing to gamble with one's life. While I have done some adventurous things in my live, I've always taken basic safety precautions and not pushed my luck too far. But, that's just me. To each their own. I wish the three climbers well, but it sure isn't looking very good for them right now.

Just curiosity is all. I don't know much about them and I've heard the subject brought up a few times after other Mt. Hood rescues. I remember a group who were rescued ten or more years ago who said they would never carry them. They were lucky since they were able to walk out.

Oh, If that is true, I guess a couple of my guide books are wrong... But as I understand it, they also only work if you activate it, and someone notifies the Sheriff that someone is overdue.. I'm sure they would have activated it last Sunday. And then, wouldn't rescuers have been able to triangulate their position from the signal? Don't they use portable homing receivers kind of like wildlife trackers use?

I can't help but think that if they had an MLU, the searchers would have been able to lock onto the signal and gotten to them today or possibly even earlier this week.

That's just an adolescent, ignorant response, IMO. And in my opinion you're an asshole trying to stir people up. You introduced the analogy of climbing with an MLU and swimming with a life vest, not G spotter. He just pointed out the shortcomings of your analogy. Just out of curiousity, since your the badass lifeguard, who the hell do you know who actually swims with a life jacket on? I can see paddling/boating with one on but swimming? Give me a break. As for the MLU, oftentimes extra safety equipment can lull someone into a sense of complacency, taking risks when they shouldn't. They were used mostly for body recovery around here. Cell phone coverage used to be excellent all over the mountain until the switch to digital. Fine, next summer we can read about YOU in The Oregonian when you go swimming in the Clackamas River and don't surface.

Well, as I understand it, the MLU only works on the SOUTH SIDE of the mountain.. These guys where climbing the NORTH FACE, and decending on the south side.... So, if they are dug in on the NORTH side of the mountain, that MLU is as useful as a brick in your pack.. And as far as safety equipment, they are carrying that kind of stuff. Ropes, pickets, Ice axes, crampons, and screws are safety equipment that all of us climbers bring along. So, unless they are free soloing the NF of hood, in T-shirts and Jeans, I would say that they are safety sissies... Well, finally, a logical reason to NOT carry an MLU. If what you say is true about the MLU's not working on the North Side then I can halfway understand why they wouldn't carry one. However, since they had planned to come down the South Side, it still would have been a nice thing to have, IMO. I'm curious if it is true about the MLU's not working on the North Side of the mountain. Can anyone else confirm that?

Searchers are all coming back down the mountain now. Done for the day. If the climbers had an MLU, they'd probably be on their way down, too. But, hey, safety equipment is for sissies, huh?