Kevin Hansen ID

yes, that was very worth the time. Thanks for the post.

Too right. It seems that the mountains do not care if you are an expert.

To calculate the Serack collapse rate all a person would need to do is measure the flow rate of the ice wall hanging above from Liberty Cap, and then monitor how often the toe edge calved off. In years of relatively high flow rates, then the serack collapse rates would also increase as well. In years of slower glacial creep, you could literally forecast fewer serack collapse events. Rock Fall Collapse rates would be much harder to forecast and I assume that they would be directly tied to temperature swings throughout the day and nights. If a season had a high number of freeze/thaw cycles from day to night, then rock fall danger would also be more likely. If there was a year where it was below freezing all day and all night for the last month and then wham, it stayed above freezing all day and all night this next month, then there would be relatively fewer rock falls. Super interesting stuff. Lastly if catastrophic collapses happened at one part of the day more than others, where people are located at that time of day is also a big factor. "HEY everybody, for the next 4 hours stay out of gullies, and couloirs". You could have 20 people on the route on the day a collapse happens, yet if all are in a safe zones, then no one will get hurt.

One other point of view. Lets assume that back in the day of yester-year say the 1980's, or early 1990's Liberty Ridge might have had a dozen people climb the route over the 12 week season. (one person per week.) Now, let us assume that there is a consistent timing involved in catastrophic collapse such as ice seracks calving, or daily freeze/thaw cycles and seasonal melting causing major rock fall. Similar to a 100 year flood prediction or plate margins stress release events (earthquake prediction). Imagine that a video camera recorded a dozen collapse events happening over a dozen weeks. (On average one per week). And it happened between the hours of noon and 4pm. Well in the 1990's if a dozen people climbed the route over the 3 month window, (12 weeks) odds are very low that anyone would be around to see it occur. Fast forward to 2018 where the popularity of the Mountain has increased and so has the desire to climb Liberty Ridge. Imagine one or more groups on the route at all times over the 12 week climbing window. If a week or two go by where nothing happens, then the odds increase dramatically for the remaining weeks left in the season. In other words lets pretend climbing Liberty Ridge is very much like playing Russian Roulette but instead of a 1 in 5 chance of firing a bullet, lets boost it up to a 1 in 8 chance, or even 1 in 20. In the 1980's and 1990's very few people spun the chamber of the revolver so few shots were fired. Now that there are more and more people standing in line to hold the revolver, it gets used on a more frequent basis and therefore more shots get fired.

Seems like most Idaho ice climbing this year is in Utah and Montana.

More Idaho ice info is found in Teton Canyon outside of Driggs Idaho. Lots of ice and it's moderate to advanced. Keep heading North and you'll bump into Hyalite Canyon. It never disappoints. City of Rocks can grow some ice in good years. Don't think its a big deal ice destination, it isn't. However if you climb ice and you live in Idaho, you have to do it at least once. It's good for you.

A few people started hitting me up for beta on how to even get to the North Face of Borah. The last time I went, a member of our group brought along a GoPro. For your viewing pleasure here's the video mashup. It's very similar to a Cascade climb (long hike up very steep snow). If this still doesn't do it for you. Go To Mountain Project and look up Psycho Therapy. The approach is the same. By the way, the freeze/thaw cycles are perfect for growing ice in the range right now. The snow pack might not be the safest so do your homework.

Growing up in Idaho my entire experience is limited to the City of Rocks, trade routes in the Sawtooth and Teton Ranges, crazy scree of the Lost River Range, and climbing steep ice in Montana and Utah. I've only been on Rainier once when a partner and I did Kautz Glacier and came down the DC. We hope to head back in early July with a small group of folks similar to my abilities and experience. I'd like to do something like Liberty Ridge or Ptarmagen Ridge, yet it could be a little above the groups speed limit. What routes present a challenge, yet are still ideal for intermediate mountaineers?

Right now things are wet and cold. Not an awesome time to be at 6,000 feet in the Albion mountains. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday look yucky to me. But you may get out for a few climbs on Friday and Saturday if you're ok with climbing with a puffy and beeny. If you do have to go, Elephant Rock hosts the classics and you should hit those in the sunny morning. Then I'd head to the upper Breadloaves in the Afternoon and evening. If its windy, stay down off the rim (avoid the Breadloaves, Bath Rock, ect.) and opt for climbing down in the bowl on Lost Arrow Spire, Stripe Rock, ect. Just some ideas. Don't forget to hit Durfee Hot Springs to warm up after a long day of teeth chattering cragging. On the flip side, the Friday and Saturday pocket of good weather could be almost tropical. I've gone to the City in Dec when the sun is shining and there is no wind. Even though its 28 or 35 degrees, it feels like its in the 60's. Good luck.

A fair sampling of the Classics. In my view, you've hit all the cherries with the exception of maybe 2-3 you missed. Don't forget Yellow Wall, Site 18, and Theater of Shadows on your next trip. Beef Jello is full value as well. Also Castle Rocks is very good as well. I think it gets 10% of the climbing traffic the City gets. And 90% of the climbers that go to Castles, stay on Castle Rock. I feel spoiled living 30 minutes away. Don't forget December climbing at the city. Sure the weather man says its 25 degrees out, but if there is blue skies, no wind, it feels like 60 degrees on the west side of Bath rock. If you're training for Patigonia climbing, no better place to climb ice, than at the City.

Oh, I found another source. http://www.idahoaclimbingguide.com/pat-mcgranes-wildhorse-classics-guide/ Kevin

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z273/pmcgrane/Sky%20Pilot/P1010193.jpg Sounds to me like "SKY PILOT" 5.7 on 11,280 is just what your looking for. Also in the same neighborhood is a route on Devils Bed Stead East. The third route I'd point you to is "Stur Chimney" 5.7 on Mount Hayburn near Red Fish Lake. I've enjoyed sport climbing, I've paid my dues on big walls, questioned myself every time I get the screaming barfys on ice, heck I've even tolerated the dirty trail on Borah far too many times. But the real good stuff, the real cream of the crop is solid Alpine Trad climbing at 10,000 feet. I love, love, love just climbing tame, 5.6 to 5.9 pitch after pitch after pitch till the sun goes down. Its the stuff of romance, the stuff of adventure, that transforms you from what you were to what you are now. http://www.network54.com/Forum/105717/thread/1343019856/Peak+11280 http://sawtoothguides.com/rock-alpine-climbing/alpine-climbing/ Post a TR after you knock off some of these. Kevin

There are routes that stand as a measuring stick to see how a you measure up. This is one of those routes. It's on the North Face of Mount Borah. Now that I can check it off my list, I can say hands down the hardest and scariest climbing I have ever done in my life. No I will not do it again. Here is a TR. http://eat-climb-run.blogspot.com/2014/06/psycho-therapy.html

Idaho Public television aired a special highlighting some of the High Points and some of the core players in Idaho's small climbing circles. http://video.idahoptv.org/video/2365102528/ Enjoy for free.

I've done a lot of research on Psycho Therapy including speaking with Dean Lords about it. He climbed it in Nov and said it was more of a dry rock climb. The ideal time to get in on it is May and early June. Brad Schilling (City of Rocks ranger) and Doug climbed the couloir(s) to the left. Brad said in speaking to me that "it was overhanging 5.9 choss". But he told Dean "some of the best alpine ice I've ever climbed!" I have yet to find a partner for either of these routes. As far as Beta for how to get to the North Face of Borah, this is about the best resource you'll find. I was even criticized for how complete the beta is. http://www.network54.com/Forum/105717/thread/1369152445/Conditions-Partners+N-+Face+Borah