Baltoro

Whidbey I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you here. You asked for people's opinions and you didn't like the one that disagreed with yours. You knew, or should've known what to expect when you bought plastics. If you feel like you were mislead by the no doubt way too inexperienced sales guy then by all means bring them back because they sold you the wrong boots. As to compensation for CEO and CFO, Dennis Madsen the former, now retired president and CEO made just under 1.4 million last year in total compensation after bonuses in a pretty good year. Brad Johnson, the CFO, made $610K. These numbers are including retirement dollars which inflates them somewhat. This by the way is now public information even though REI does not have to reveal it, they chose to for transperancy to the members. They don't want it to be a big secret. This year so far, on total sales of $400 some odd million, REI will get a net profit of about $1.9 million, almost entirely from the membership sales. That's what brings in the cash for new technology to stay competitive, to open new stores to get new people outside, and to train all those gumby employees. So they net $1.9 million through the first half of the year and they just cut checks for $780,000 to 160 different conservation and outdoor recreation clubs. How much did Second Ascent donate? I realize that it's not remotely possible for Second Ascent to do that. They have a place in the market as does REI. We just can't expect these companies to do things outside of their capacity. REI can sell a hell of a lot more nalgenes and TNF Denali jackets than they can offset aliens or Bibler tents. By all means go to FF or SA or ProMountain for those things. Go to REI for whatever else you can't get at these places that you think they might have and don't expect the guy behind the climbing counter to know his sh**. Some of them do and the good ones won't try and BS you, but most don't know. Again, I'm not trying to have a pissing match here. I respect your opinion and I hope some extra info helps. If you still feel the same then that's totally fine. Like you said you'll spend your dollars elsewhere. I'm sorry if my first post came off too attacking as that wasn't my intent. I too am pissed that the guy who helped you didn't qualify what you were using them for and sold you boots that probably weren't good for you. The idea is that you are able to trust them to sell you the right stuff the first time and the return policy is the guarantee to back that up. Like I said, if they steared you wrong then by all means, bring 'em back.

Whidbey That's not what the return policy is for. The idea is that you can feel confident in what you're buying because if the gear falls apart on you or totally doesn't live up to expectations than you know that the co-op can absorb the cost for you. Plastic boots are heavy, bulky and feel like ski boots, especially next to Salomon Pro Ice boots. Koflachs are not ice climbing boots and aren't really good for anything involving rock in any way shape or form. Ice boots or at least modern ice boots have become much more flexible in the ankle to allow more crampon placement then kicking like the days of old. Koflachs are great for Denali or slogging up glaciers, particularly in winter. I can't imagine what you could have done in August that they are suited for. None of this info about plastic boots is a secret. They're heavy and cumbersome, no doubt. I think you mis-evaluated what you wanted and didn't get enough info before buying. Most REI stores will rent you a pair to try out and if you like them you can apply the rental cost to the purchase cost of a new pair. If they don't work then you're just out the rental cost. It will also give you a better idea of what the boot will be like after it softens up some whereas a new boot will be stiff as hell. REI gives away 80% of it's profit as a dividend to members so no one is getting rich there (which seems to be a common cc.com misconception) so it's not like you're pulling one over on the man here, you're just helping to jack up prices. They also will look at total returns on products and when they see mass returns on climbing gear, since people do this all the time, they're less likely to carry it. People complain about the downfall of REI's climbing department but when half the sales get returned what do people expect. REI won't even notice if you do it or not but I feel it's a matter of integrity. The fact that you had to ask about it here says to me that you were looking for added justification to return them. Do what you think is right.

I'm looking to part ways with my AT gear as I can't use it enought to justify the cost. I've got BD Arc Angels 190cm(stiff, relatively slim, don't get knocked around by crud), Scarpa Titan boots UK 11.5 (a softer version of the Denali) and Fritchi bindings. I forget the model of skins but they're cut to the ski and all of it is nearly brand new. It's all been used maybe 5 times over the course of 3 winters now so it's time to get them to a better home. This setup was really intended to climb first and ski second. Very little resistance while skinning due to more limited sidecut but still plenty of flotation for the backcountry. I'm 250Lbs. without a pack and I've done a few tours with these and had no issues so they'll definately float you. Throw out a price and I'll see how badly I want to move these. Retail price was about $1200 but I need nowwhere near that. No offer to low to consider, well maybe no offer. I can definately ship them around as well so bid away. Thanks!

Does anyone know what the overhanging 5.12ish bolted route on the far left side of Veteran's Club is? It sure is a pain to get to in order to TR. It's also pretty new I'd imagine as there is still some cleaning to be done on it. Any ideas?

I'm looking into some Ball-Nuts for addtional placement options, mostly for aid but maybe the occassional free placement as well. Does anyone have any input as far as which brand to go for, Trango or Camp. I know the Camp model has evolved from the original Lowe-Balls, but as to specifics between the two versions I am not sure. Any help would be great. Thanks!

Sadly my best times are as follows: Beginner- 5 seconds Intermediate- 39 seconds Expert- 91 seconds On a related note does anyone know any good taping methods to help prevent "mousefinger" tendon injuries?

Thanks for the input! Now hopefully it won't rain.

I've got a pair of Jokers (some pun intended) and am pleased thus far. As far as using them to save weight, that is not the way to go. You can certainly get a lighter setup for double or twin use. Doubles down to 8.1 or twins at 7.5 or so would certainly save weight. As a single though they're great for anything you don't plan on falling on but you just might. I got the Jokers because you get 25 falls as twins and 20 as doubles and I'm a big dude (250lbs.) and like having the extra diameter. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy when quivering over gear or manky bolts. I know some folks will climb on one Joker and say an Iceline for use as doubles, giving you a little extra beef. Anyways, hope that helps.

I'm looking to go to Static Point and climb Lost Charms. Relative to the rest of the climbs there it sounds to be the least runout according to Sky Valley Rock guidebook. Does anybody have any good input on this route? Does the guidebook description hold true? Any info you all have would be great. Thanks!

I came back the following day in even more rain to retrieve the rope. All is well and I still claim that the hardest move on that route is getting up the 3rd/4th class chimney to the ledge, particularly when everything is soaked!

We managed have the rope jam while descending from the Great Northern Slab at Index. I was with a friend from work on her first day outside and she cetainly got the outside experience. Lots of rain and bailing in lots of rain and a stuck rope to top it all off with. I should be headed back out there tomorrow to retrieve it but if anyone beats me to it I'd be very grateful for its return. Thanks!

Ok. I've read many of these rants before and since an actual employee has not stepped in to voice their opinion yet on this thread, I will. I've been an REI employee for 5 years now and have had my ups and downs there. I've actually had a "conversation" with my management about using the term "Evil Empire" in an email at work. Someone had mentioned they treat their employees like crap. My management totally went to bat for me and kept me from getting fired. They talked about how they could relate at times but that is part of the reality of retail. I wouldn't make statements like yours based upon the observations of your lazy, stoner friend who couldn't show up to work on time. Is REI getting out of climbing? Of course they are to some extent. The members that used to be putting up FAs and climbing hard are now into comfort bikes and Nalgenes for their grandkids. Is that REI's fault. No. Also, as a retailer, they've got to go where the money is, and climbers as a group don't drop the same type of change as the rest of the population, thus the cheezy pink Nalgenes and bone shaped keychain carabiners. If you want to whine about somebody selling out, look at the climbing population for not better voicing their opinions. Here is a very passionate community that obviously has strong feelings and the result is nothing but a new REI sucks thread every other week. By the way the REI sucks thread from a while back was great except the fact that the original poster's story had no basis in truth. I work with several of the people he got help from and they are quality people. Bottom line: it was his fault. Anyways back to my original ranting. Want to get somebody nominated to the board? Get petitions from members. Something like 10,000 are required but hey, you've got one good internet forum here and there's others out there as well. Another reason for climbing gear shrinking in the stores is just that. Shrink. That's the term in retail for when product mysteriously vanishes. Is soccer mom and latte dad swiping cams? Those bastards!! No, it's climbers. And you're not screwing the man when you're walking out with stolen gear. You're pissing off other climbers because it makes it that much harder to keep those things around. I have a hard time justifying keeping our best selling cam, BD Camalots in store because they have a sell/steal ratio of about 3:1. Not very good on an item that costs a lot to buy from BD in the first place. REI being a co-op, and it is, doesn't have the cash to expand like you're all talking about. Opening 4-6 stores a year is not out of control, money grubbing expansion. It's conservative, make sure we're in buisness 50 years from now expansion. We were hit very hard with this crap of a winter we just had and only through smart choices and savvy leadership will this not greatly affect our end of year results. And where does that great leadership come from. Those "over-paid" executives that we swiped from other big retailers because they wanted to come work somewhere with great people who's only purpose at work is to get more people out and playing. Does that mean pushing high-margin product. Yes. Does that mean hassling you on the membership signup? Yes. Why? Because the only dollars for expansion come from the membership sale. Did you sign up for your membership in the original location? If not then shut up. Without that location being opened near you, you'd never have signed up, and maybe you don't shop there anymore and you hate the place but at some point that store got you excited and motivated to go outside. We're trying to do that same thing for people on the east coast. Hell only 5% of the Puget Sound is an REI member. Most of those other people will never get outside but their chances drastically increase if they are an REI member, so quit being so selfish and crying about REI changing and begin realizing that it still has the same purpose, it just doesn't quite suit you anymore. Do we sell the high-end, advanced climbing equipment anymore? No, but our customer doesn't want that. They want family camping tents and Nalgenes. Special order all the climbing crap you want and believe me we'll take notice and hopefully get more in store. I've been where you're at and totally pissed but it was usually because I didn't understand all the details. I read the Seattle Weekly article and was pissed as well, but it always comes back to the fact that we don't serve our members very well if we're out of buisness in a couple years. Sometimes that means decisions that you don't like but hey that's why we pay Dennis $1 million a year and not you! Ahh, I feel much better. Seriously though, rather than us piss and moan back and forth at each other, I'd rather try and answer or find answers to specific concerns. I'd rather there was someone to let you guys know how things work on the other side of the Gore-Tex curtain than you go off on misinformed rages that potentially ward off people who might benefit from being an REI member. Please PM me if there's something we wronged you on or that you want to know more about and I'll try and be a better or less abrasive conduit than you've had in the past. Hope this all helps more than hurts.

I've got a pair of Nepali Extremes size 43.5 for sale. I'd like to get about $100 out of them. Give me an email or PM if interested. DYOMAD@msn.com Thanks!

Glassgowkiss, I may have come off as sounding a little too green. I was just looking for input from folks who may have been on some of these climbs recently who might know if there's enough snow/ice coverage to survive after this warming trend. I've made plans to climb chair peak a half dozen times or so and have yet to get up there due to poor avy conditions and I'm certainly not about to ignore them now. Based on my original post I'd probably have replied with something similiar so I certainly appreciate your response.

I was looking forward to 3 days in Lillooet area which became 3 in WA which is now looking more like a couple of hopefully good football games. I was hoping for Alpental area (Chair NF or NEB, maybe da Tooph, and who knows what else. Is anything going to be climbable still after this heat wave?? Assuming avy comditions are ok by Monday, I still hope to salvage some of my time off but is it going to be worth the slog in? I haven't been on ice long so I really don't know what to expect as to the condition of these climbs after this much heat. I know if it all freezes up things should be great but is it too late for that? Any info that anyone can pass along would be great. Thanks!

I have 8 camalots that I'm looking to sell, onlt to upgrade to the C4 camalots. I have as follows: 1 3.5 1 3 2 2 2 1 1 .75 1 .5 They are all in great shape with no falls on any pieces. I need to get about $30-$35 per piece and will pay shipping if you buy enough of 'em. Email or pm me as hopefully these won't last long. Thanks! DYOMAD@msn.com