JosephH

Again, blaming me for Eric's work and then expecting me not to "name Eric first" is about as chicken shit as it gets Kevin...

No, you hold the phone Kevin, you brought up his lines and accused me of making it all inviting. I responded by explaining, no, that was Eric that installed all that stuff. You can't separate one from the other. If you didn't want to talk about Eric's work up there then you shouldn't bring it up. The idea that you can simply accuse me of Eric's work and then somehow not talk about him is complete bullshit. And as I just said above, the anchor low to the ground was to enable the removal of Eric's line from the tree above up on Grassy Ledge; part of the deal with the BRSP was anchors off of the trees, that made that an anchor-for-anchor swap for the tree and also one that can by used for a one-rap litter op if we have to do a rescue off of Grassy Ledge. Yep, I added one at Windsurfer and at Dod's below the tree (again, to get it off the tree and also Jim wanted that one). With regards to the Windsurfer anchor. There are two now, the one over Pipeline and Fresh Squeeze and the one directly back from Windsurfer - we can take one out but Windsurfer gets the traffic and having to anchor way to the left on the Pipeline/Fresh Squeeze anchor that Eric had the long, thin chains on is pretty ridiculous. Given Windsurfer is the one that gets all the traffic that is the one that should stay and folks wanting to do Fresh Squeeze should be the ones doing the stretch as far as I'm concerned. As for Summer Breeze, again, the deal with the BRSP was anchors off of the trees - and specifically Dod's and Summer Breeze in particular.

Nope, you're changing the focus - Kevin, not me started this round of discussion. Kevin, not me posted about Eric's lines. Again, you don't want this shit sprayed online, talk to your man Kevin - he's the one that brought it up. Yet another conversation we didn't need to have online that I didn't start. Which part of "I didn't bring it up online" don't you get?

Mark, Again, I didn't bring up Eric, Kevin did. The area around Flying Dutchman was altered / changed by Eric, not me; I simply reorganized it to make it less inviting (no rope to clip from Grassy Ledges) and less visible - I changed nothing about the functionality about Eric's rigs there except to remove the line down to the Flying Duchtman sub-ledge. I did see him working the line once, but never met Eric until after the fact. Jim O. was not all for what was going on according to him when I asked him about it - especially the TR anchors. He explicitly said Eric "was going to do his own thing no matter what..." I'd say ask Jim yourself as either he's changed his tune or telling us two different things. I have no problem whatsoever with the anchors or even bolts Eric put in on his new routes; as you say, everyone has on FA's. The TR anchors and fixed line are another matter. But I'm not "bashing" him, but my point was to say that I'm not the one responsible for changing things up around Flying Dutchman, Eric was and the bitching should have been directed to him, not me. Again, I agree wholeheartedly with you relative to his new lines being done completely appropriately and that they are good routes.

Mark, I have nothing but respect for the actual climbing Eric did, but the TR anchors and rope are another matter. I have no problem with his new routes - but let's be absolutely honest when we talk about him and what he did out there - relative to new routes, anchors, bolts, and fixed lines Eric did his own thing and it's pretty clear neither Kevin nor Brian nor anyone else called him on any of it at the time despite claims that they didn't like or agree with it. Jim said he didn't like any of it but that Eric was going to do his own thing regardless. No one is "slandering" Eric; Kevin brought up the matter of Eric's fixed line and I've simply replied asking Kevin where were all the objections then about both the line or the added anchors. That Eric, who wasn't a "local", came in and simply did as he pleased adding and changing things is a fact. Just contrasting that with the anchor/pin replacements and Kevin's complaint about replacing Eric's fixed line.

Do a search for "Beacon" on posts over 18 months or two years old and you'll have your answer...

No, actually they were reading about Beacon when it was posted about and it was. And for the millionth time, the BRCA postings serve a number of very real and necessary purposes (that Jim Opdycke understands and agrees with). You're endless bitching online about shit I didn't mention at all is, on the otherhand, how the majority of online noise about Beacon is, and continues to be, generated. Don't want to talk about Beacon online, then STFU online - otherwise, if you bring a topic up, you can expect me to answer it. Again, which is it?

I'm not shifting anything, you are. Kevin explicitly brought up this matter of Eric's lines - not me. I've simply answered his posts. As far as Andrew not appointing himself king - he sprays anchors and protection bolts and he gets a complete pass and not one of you call him on it. Right. Bitch on... Another complete and total lie, Bryan. The rangers have been checking in on CC.com long before I ever interacted with them. I'd don't forward or edit anything to or for them or point out anything for them to read. So is this the level of lawyerly innuendo and bullshit you resort to? Jesus, between Kevin's complete and total hypocrisy and your outright lies it's getting pretty thick around here today. Well, now that he's actually come out and finally said who he is it's possible to take him seriously now. It's only candid when you know who the hell is talking. You're certainly welcome to your opinion...

But did you bitch to Eric - not about him? Did you tell him not to do it or to take it down? Again, the BRCA notices are for the explicit purposes I've laid out several times now. The rest of this is basically you bring up topics online you say you don't want online - which the hell is it?

Kevin, Jesus you are a one-man bitchfest. If you didn't like the fixed lines Eric put up why didn't you take them down. If you didn't like all the anchors that went in over the years, why didn't you get after all the folks that put them in or take them out? Why is it you've managed to be silent year after year while all these atrocities occured? Eric's trash was up there for years and not a peep. Had I simply removed it all and his top rope anchors without replacing the exact functionality (i.e. I made no functional changes whatsoever) you'd be doing a complete bitchstorm about having taken it all down. As it is, nothing has changed functionally a shred, from before when you weren't bitching - it's all essentially unchanged except that it's just less visible now. If you wanted to bitch at someone it should have been Eric.

Kevin, I've not been "bolting the crap out of Beacon". You have Beacon confused with Ozone. Beacon, with a very, very few exceptions that Jim saw and approved, has been a bolt for bolt, pin for pin replacement effort. Pig, Eric was here from CO and he did "bolt the crap out of Beacon" if anyone has. He add a considerable number of anchors and protection bolts. How much noise went on then, Kevin? Did you get in Eric's face about it all back then? You were out there the whole time according to you...

Funny you should mention Olson - he's just came out of the background claiming to be on the verge of publishing a "high resolution, very detailed map of Beacon". I've conveyed in an email to him that the consensus of the BRCA would be that he not do so - I doubt that's going to carry a lot of weight with him, though. Better questions might be what happens when the next Eric shows up? What happens when a couple of hot shot climbers turn up and claim they want to bolt up what they say are clearly abandoned lines that haven't seen activity in years?

Kevin, I'd be the very first person to remove every single protection and anchor bolt out at Beacon if it were up to me and I thought that would really lower Beacon's profile. I actually don't need them, I do know how to build anchors, and have the loweballs and crack'n ups and don't mind climbing above them - but, that's not what this has been about, it's been about replacing anchors and resetting/replacing pins and camo'ing any protection bolts. Nothing has changed about the nature of climbing at Beacon - I haven't put in any new anchors or changed any anchors that affect anyone's behavior relative to topping out on Beacon other than Eric's top rope anchors. I did't put the anchors on top of Blownout for instance - others did. Did you bitch then? Have you ever rapped Blownout? Or used that anchor? You're bitching at the wrong person - you should have been bitching at the folks that placed all the anchors out there as they were doing it. All in all a lot of noise from a guy that's never seen a [protection] bolt he didn't like...

WTF Kevin? Back up a couple of posts and you'll see YOU are the one that just brought up the topic of those lines - not me. Are you for real? Are you telling me that this is how you operate? That you can actually post here about something online and then blame me for "spraying about it online". You're kidding me right? Get a grip dude - don't want a topic online? THEN DON'T POST ABOUT IT ONLINE...

Larry, so Eric's rope was up there for years because you felt this way? The Anchor Replacement Project basically hasn't been about removing gear or functionality - it's been about replacing like for like but reducing the visibility profile of it all from the ground. Anchor for anchor, pin for pin, and in the case of Eric's rig - being able to safely get down to the tops of Borderline, Excaliber, and Crankenstien to setup topropes - that functionality has been duplicated exactly. If folks didn't want this functionality or were genuinely concerned about "inviting" people down to Flying Dutchment then why didn't any of you folks take Eric's line down long ago? The fixed line from Grassy Ledges to Blownout was a temporary workline for replacing anchors on routes in the vicinity of Blownout and was removed when the work was completed, but then Jim Opdycke and several others requested that it be put back. I don't care either way - take that one up with Jim. All the lines are now set up to be removed at the end of the season and put back up the following spring.

Kevin, this just could not be more wrong. What has happened is that Eric's blue rope (remember the bright blue rope) that ran from the tree up on Grassy Ledges all the way down to Flying Dutchman and then all the way back down to the top rope anchors he installed on the top of Borderline got replaced with a two shorter individual ropes that are now basically invisible from the ground. And instead of it running for 60'. They also no longer invite someone down from Grassy Ledges as you can't see them at all from the spot where Eric's blue rope used to be tied let alone clip them as you could Eric's rope. An anchor was placed about 8" above the ground below the step down to the Flying Dutchman area to secure the end of the [short] replacement safety lines down to the Borderline and Excaliber anchors. This anchor allowed the removal of Eric's rope from the tree and is basically invisible unless and until you go down to Flying Dutchman which you can do, but you don't have Eric's line for a safety to attract or rope you down to it - that was an invitation. Where Eric's line could be seen and clipped from Grassy Ledges and seen from the boat launch, the new lines can't be seen from either place. The BRSP explicitly wanted this highly visible line down - what's there now is an invisible replacement that retains the essential functional characteristics of Eric's rig without "inviting" folks down to Flying Dutchman the way Eric's rig did. Oh, and did you bitch and moan this much when Eric put all that trash up there to begin with? No? What a surprise. And Jim Opdycke's comment was, "Love it. If anyone has a problem have them talk to me." So I'd say talk with him about, but at least get your facts straight first. I'd encourage folks to go look at it for themselves, but do it with what was there in mind. Also, Excaliber is the one place where you can get a rescue litter off of the Grassy Ledges in one rap where you have a clean, accessible top and an essentially flat wall compared to the Blownout and Flying Dutchman dihedrals. That low anchor by the step will double for a staging / backup anchor in a litter op down Excaliber.

Pig, From one of my posts in the other thread: Beacon Rock sits in the center of a regulatory onion that looks sort of like this: Beacon > BRSP > WSP > WDFW > Tribal Councils > Skamania County > Forest Service > Gorge Commission > Railroad - with each successive agency potentially having more power than the previous depending on the context one is looking at Beacon from. And while these are the primary agencies of record for Beacon the list doesn't include any number of agencies with relavant interests in Beacon such as the Washington Department of Archaeology and Historic Preservation (relative with regards to the East face and maintenance of park structures such as the buildings and the trail). And in that regulatory mix our current BRSP rangers Erik Plunkett and John Ernster are actually Beacon climbers best friends as they have defended climbing at Beacon multiple times to multiple agencies and interest groups since their arrival. Erik is passionate about his own sports and his brother is a climber; John is an ex-alpine climber who had to stop after a bad rockfall accident severely injured and almost killed him. We're lucky to have them both as we could just as easily have rangers that don't get it and view it as a hassle, which these guys don't. They actually like that there is climbing in their park - it gives the place some added cache within the WSP system. Today's threat to Beacon isn't "land managers", it's climbers with a very different vision of what climbing should be at Beacon. To be honest, I'm not sure how to react to the blue collar statement other than to say I understand you're drift and I'd say letting us do pre-opening work sessions two years in a row and opening a month early constitutes "land managers" ( Erik, John, David, and Lisa ) "giving back" in my book. As for the Peregrine closures - I'm guessing you were one of the crew that was involved with turning down the partial closure offer at the Stevenson meeting on the principle that if the tourist top out, climbers should be able to top out. As I've attempted to explain several times, the original deed to the park spelled out that the trail remain open. Also, WDFW would have preferred the trail be closed as well, but even they saw it wasn't going to be worth the political capital to force the issue with the WSP given the original deeding and the fact that 600k people a year hike the trail which is the only reason Beacon is a park at all. As far as I'm concerned it's long, long past the time to get over that whole line of argument [over the principle] - WDFW was smart enough to recognize the political realities and give it up and climbers should be as well.

Back home we always just said "the deader, the better..."

Pig, It's neither really, which was why I posted it in a different thread. It wasn't about Beacon - it was about chalk. Also, it isn't about anyone needing to "climb at your standards" or "w/o chalk" but rather one of a little objective reality and common courtesy. If what you're saying is that the rock out at Beacon is such that some people actually need a quarter of a bag of chalk to get up the first pitch of the corner or YW then I simply disagree. Maybe a veritable white line up the pitch with a spill at every dip doesn't affect your climbing experience at all, but it does mine. Again, it's more about common sense and courtesy for other climbers and not about Beacon.

Larry, There is no disagreement about keeping "family" arguments off the net; the distinction is between BRCA posts which have to be on the net for several reasons and "family matters" which do not need to be.

These aren't produced by DMM - they are being made by a woman who apparently holds the rights to the Brassies, but not the alloys. None of this has come about smoothly and likely complicated matters relative to DMM once again producing the alloys. We can only hope for the best and folks should email DMM and ask them to start producing the larger aluminum alloy HB Offests.

- One on Pipeline. - One out on an odd mossy traverse between YW and the SE Corner.

Well, there you have it mystery solved...!

A bit of chalk when it's really needed is one thing, but when folks drench a pitch of the corner, Jill's, YW, or any other pitch with somewhere in the neighborhood of quarter of a block of chalk, well it could just be me, but I personally think it's a complete drag to go out to climb something and find it in that condition; it's way beyond the necessary.

No, it's simply Kevin being Kevin. You can tell both by the writing and the fact that he's said exactly all that almost verbatim about 30 times now - who am I, where did I come from, I was out everyday, yada yada. Jim and I talked about all this yet again last night and he knows exactly the difference between the BRSP postings and unnecessarily bringing stuff up as Kevin's last few posts have. Kevin, you can keep fabricating these users but the BRSP notices are going to continue (no doubt along with you and your shadows' postings on the Internet that the first rule of Beacon Club is to not post on the Internet about Beacon Club...).