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Return policy is the only thing going. They sure as hell ain't a co-op anymore. A couple of years ago they took in more money in memberships than what was collected by "members" in dividends (check out their stats). I haven't followed it since then. The uncollected dividends go back into the company not spread out throughout their "members" If it was a true co-op then we would get a dividend based on their profits not on what we don't purchase on sale (no dividend)with a cc or debit card (8% return). You would think that a company with profits that large would not penalize their "members" for using a credit card to buy a kayak or some other high end item. Did you ever notice that sale items are always 10-20% off which is equal to your dividend amount you would get back if sale items were dividenable??

For what it is worth...I have some screamers (not ice screamers) that are six years old but have only been used about 30 times. Yesterday my buddy (180 lbs) was about 6 ft above a solidly placed 17cm screw, on a 9.5mm line, when his tools popped and he launched. The screamer's stitching ripped, but the screw didn't pull, bend or fracture the ice. I agree that the replacement cost is a lot cheaper than health, and I have been planning swapping them out (especially as I was reading this thread). I was pretty happy to see them work as designed, absorb all that force, and a leave perfectly good 2" sling to clean.

There are plenty of scientific studies out there (both industry and academic) that demonstrate creatine's effectiveness for a variety of sports. Creatine if taken properly with a proper diet volumizes cells and provides a compound that the body normally requires for muscle maintenance, growth, and energy (remember the ATP electron cascade from high school bio?...I don't either), but just in major doses. The advantages from creatine is a noticeable increase in muscle volume, power/endurance, and recovery (and this will lead to bigger muscles). You will lose some water volume when you stop taking it. I started taking it again after my backsurgery when I returned to the gym. Within a couple of weeks I noticed a marked increase in how many reps I could do and most importantly to climbing, an increased ability to push out a couple more. In the gym this translated in getting that great pump. I find that I also have a little more explosive power. I think this is the area in which there are conflicting studies. Too much muscle can certainly be a hinderance, and I agree that the best training for climbing is climbing, but strength training and maintaining/adding more fast muscle fibers (lifting, jumping, sprinting) and slow (endurance) can only pay off in the future.

Thanks Clintoris, it is pretty new pack and I didn't expect many reponses. I have used Wild Things for years, but now I am looking for something new. I am amazed that CCW and WT are still the top rated alpine packs particularly since their designs have changed very little in the last 10 years (which I guess is a testament to simplicity).

I guess the lack of response pretty much sums it up!!!

The usual - thinking about getting one. Is anyone climbing with this pack yet? My WT Ice Sack has seen its' last trip so I am curious how the Predator compares to the Shadow and how easily can you climb with this pack on. Does the top of the pack interfere? Any insight is much appreciated.

Ice in Canada is forming the best by far??? Aaah young grasshoppers, come to Alaska where waterfall ice has been climbable since October.

I use OR Mix gloves on warmer days and at belays, and I am still using BD's Ice Gloves for the cold stuff.

Excellent condition!! Used lightly shows no sign of wear. Blue and grey - size large. $100 or best offer tarinaldi@yahoo.com

Western Mounatineering's Puma has worked well for me - never a cold night. Next time I head up I might seek out something lighter.