Luna

It does beg a question, doesn't it? All I know is that he danced up this thing like he didn't need a rope.

Bob was clearing giving his student a lesson, an advanced lesson. He owns Vertical Adventures I think it's called. The guy's a hot shot. I'm just curious about the clip but haven't heard a reson not to do it this way other than the biner might twist.

OK - here's the interesting part. The guide was Bob Gaines - co-author with John Long of "Climbing Anchors", no slouch. Maybe he was not even concerned with the possibility of a fall. It was only 5.10c.

Will somebody get this unemployed guy a job? Please! He's reverting to a sophmore in high school with all that free time!

I was climbing at JT a few weeks ago and watched a guide lead his client up a steep face climb that was bolted. The bolts were in a pretty straight line. The guide just clipped a biner to each bolt and then the rope. I would have been inclined to put a short quick draw on them, or at least one biner on the bolt, clip another biner to the first, and clip the rope to the second biner. But I can't think of a specific reason not to do it the way the guide did it. Is there a problem with just clipping a bolt and the rope to the same biner?

Very good mr trask but you forgot $$$$$$ to rebuild, eye off the ball (terrorism), and that oil thing.

I climbed here last fall, quite by accident. We were just going on a hike but had been at Smith so had the stuff in the car. We just picked a few lines that we thought we could get up. The rock is nice, solid. But maybe we were on a few lines that were works in progress(?) because we found only one rap station. We stopped at the climbing shop in Bend (redpoint?) and asked but the guy on duty wasn't much help. Seems like a fun place and no people. I'd say we were on routes that were 8-10a. I'd like to hear if anyone else knows more.

Wow. That's actually not a bad starter. Bravo. Hate to digress but I'm going to jump back a few posts. Seems like JB was making the point that sometimes the US has to do bad things for a good goal. In some limited cases. I can't think of how we would have started to address the Bin Laden mess without going into Afganastan. However, the US has a long and messy history of messing around in other countries because we don't like their politics and/or we want to secure their natural resources. Killing, arms dealing, turning a blind eye to human rights. It has not been a glorious march towards democratic regimes, as our intervention is often depicted. For example, overthrow of the first democratic government in Guatatemala (1954), CIA backed coup and killing of Salvador Allende (elected) in Chile, intervention in Honduras, supply arms and giving the nod for Indonesia to invade East Timor, bombing of Laos (then lying about it), CIA backing of Angola rebels, Nicaragua contras, El Salvador funding, backing of the Shah in Iran, invasion of Panama. This list could easily go on for several pages. You would have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not admit that the US has mucked around in many places where we have no business, other than the code word of "national interest". This is an especially good quote: "We have 50% of the world's wealth, but only 6.3% of its population... In this situation we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a paattern of relationships which will allow us to maintain this position of disparity. We should cease to talk about the raising of the living standards, human rights, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better" Geoge Kennan, Director of Policy Planning of the US State Dept. 1948. That democracy stuff. For the boids. Oh yea, bad example to use Dresden as a rationalization.

Sorry, to clarify, I meant the false testimony thing before the Gulf War. Totally made up. I know where Tillamook is. But who's Ray?

Guess you have to be around a while to follow the joke here. I'm confused.

Oh, that's what it is National Defense. Iraq is the wolf at our door and we're defending ourselves eh? Look, I have no problem with the average grunt trying to do his job, keep his nose clean, raise the family, and work in the armed forces. But it is a huge consumer of limited resources. We have an empire defender, not a nation defender. The policy is way outta wack. I mean why can't we sign the ban on land mines like other civilized countries. Why do we need to go to Iraq and likely spend 200 billion on an occupation (Treasury secretary estimate - then he got fired). My main point is that this administration (and others) takes aim at easy targets and vunerable groups. The military, well just shovel them more money.

Have to agree with Jim with this one. Saw it on 60 minutes.

Yep, them dang school lunch kids. They might be a'wasting as much money as it cost for two lug nuts on a Bradley Fighting Vehicle.

You're still here? From 8 this morning to now? You must be unemployed.

I don't think Powell is misinformed. He just has his marching orders. I don't think anyone disputes the idea that Iraq is run by a ruthless ruler, but why we're so hell bent on going in. Remember the testimony of the girl from Kuwiat saying the Iraqis were tossing babies out of incubators. It was theater, all made up to get Congress and the public stirred up. She was the child of a Kuwiati ambassador. So what is true? Whatever the admistration says is true. And the gullible swallow it whole.

Gotta go do field work - but. The balance or lack of, in giving breaks to the rich and hammering on lower income programs is a joke. Like Bill Gate's kids are get a free lunch or something. Later.

Ah another sharp reply from the unemployed. Are you on the dole?

This is a particulaly ironic one. On the basis of a faulty Department of Agriculture study the Bush administration is cracking down on that wasteful program, the free and reduced lunch program for kids. They are going to require verified proof of income rather than filling out the form. I'm sure that the teachers have lots of time to verfiy all that information and collectect from the parents who speak 19 languages in the Seattle schools. What a joke! Never mind that shrubby is throwing all the tax breaks he can bundle to the upper income buddies and that the overrun on almost any defense contract budget could pay for the lunch program several times over. This guy has no shame.

Why did my apostrophies turn into garble? Is this place run by Microsoft?

No snow so going for a trail run on Saturday and climbing at the gym on Sunday. Anyone been at Paradise lately and what's the snow scene there?

That’s one opinion I suppose. But why do we keep mucking around we’re not wanted? That money could be spent on better causes. Back in the 60’s the world had a different view of America. Back then we spent about 2% of foreign aid in World Health Programs, US AID, agriculture, engineering, etc. Now non-military spending around the world for the US is about .02%. So more and more they see us as some type of occupying force or the backers of repressive regimes. Israel is a good example. We spout the democracy thing, wave the flag, and then bomb the shit outta people or support their non-democratic governments. Oh that’s right – it’s in our “national interest”

Ah -but my first post was a climbing one!! I didn't realize that CC.com was a spray fest for the righties.

Mr. Cavey - Ok- ignoring Greg's less insightfull comment - here's what I mean. It doesn't matter what political group is in power, you need to keep an eye on them and call their BS. When Clinton sent that cruise missle into the medicine factory what happened? Nothing much. It was oops, well we had good inteligence. It's always put forth in the media (US anyway) that the US has good intentions dang it, but sometimes things get messy. Watch out when they say "national interests" . Whose is that? Yours? Mine? Hardly most of the time. Think, Think, think

If you like it so much you should use capital letters. Ah -the ole witless argument, can't say nothin wrong 'bout my country or uz a pinko. Democracy is questioning, not just swallowing the crap they throw at you in the media blitz. Just not gullible.

America right or wrongheaded! Might makes right! Speak with a low vocabulary and carry a big stick (GW)