Thinker

Not to offend you Iain, but you dont know much about the Christian faith. Jesus Christ said that it is divine to suffer and that we are to embrace suffering. Just thought you should know. Sounds almost like something Twight would say.....

Dru said: "I just think it is interesting" that you are referring to yourself in the third person suddenly, like it makes you seem all objective and shit. I suspect CBS thought he was logged in under an alt Avatar when he posted that.

Discuss, please. Do you say this because of Christianity's early spread under the (pagan) Roman Empire? Or do you have another basis? The debate, as I see it, primarily involves pagan elements in many mainstream "Christian" religions, many of which can be traced to the Roman Empire's practice of melding pagan religions with 'Christianity' to make it more palatable to the subjugated peoples... As I suspected. We agree, then. Could explain why I quit going to Mass almost 30 years ago, and renounced all major religions as "support mechanisms". I can't say that it means enough to me to take a side, or to agree or disagree. But I certainly do enjoy watching the circus from a purely academic standpoint.

Is Scotty sounding a little hypoxic today? or is it just me? I can't make heads or tails of his posts.

I think it would go much better in court for you if you shot the dog while it was actually on your property, rather than if you shot it while it was on it's owners property. I'm sure the situation is not unique and that there are plenty cases you can view online. When I was in college the neighbor had a little yap dog that they put outside every night when they went to bed...which corresponded to the time I was deepest into my studies. I'll admit that I.....I fantasized, yeah, that's all I did, fantasize, right......let me start this sentence over. That dog got shot more than a few times with the weakest little bb gun that could be found. It was plenty to shut it up for an hour while it cowered under their deck, and not so much that it did more than scare it (I shot myself with it before considering shooting the dog just to make sure it wouldn't injure the beast). In that case, I had alerted the owners to the problem, but they refused to do anything about it. Ironicaly, I was a dog owner at the same time, but I took my responsibility very seriously. If someone would have complained, I would have done everthing in my power to correct the situation, either thru training or keeping the dog inside.

Scott, could you provide a little context for your comments so we can figure out what you're trying to say?

My pet peeve is the person behind me, obviously sick and contagious, couging and sneezing all their germs (snot, mucous, phlegm, etc) onto the back of my head and into my breathing zone. In my opinion, that's an assault that they should be held accountable for. At least when I'm sitting by a fat person I can get up and stand for much of the flight....and when I'm sitting down I can flatulate and make them just as uncomforable as I am.

Discuss, please. Do you say this because of Christianity's early spread under the (pagan) Roman Empire? Or do you have another basis? The debate, as I see it, primarily involves pagan elements in many mainstream "Christian" religions, many of which can be traced to the Roman Empire's practice of melding pagan religions with 'Christianity' to make it more palatable to the subjugated peoples. Today we see the remnants of that in such things as the Easter Bunny and other pagan fertility rites, kissing under mistletoe, Christmas being placed at or near the winter solstice (the annual rebirth of the Son and the Sun), and numerous others. The Puritans attempted to remove all pagan trappings from their version of Christianity. Some fundamentalist religions today carry on that tradition and have no qualms about saying that most mainstream organized 'Christian' religions fall far short of the mark of true Christianity. I find the debate....engaging, at times. I look for seeming contradictions in our common story of Christianity (I say 'our' because most of us were raised with at least some Christian indoctrination, whether we realize it or not.) For example...since Minx brought up Hell earlier in this thread....in the story of Christianity, the devil punishes evildoers in a fiery hell for all eternity. But wait, that implies that the devil and God are in alliance, working for a common purpose. Would the God of the bible ally himself with an entity that he once kicked out of heaven and condemed to spend all eternity in the vicinity of the Earth? Would the devil REALLY punish evildoers...or would he reward them? If God wanted the evildoers punished, the devil might just attempt to contradict God's wishes. Of course, this line of reasoning can be debated (and most likely refuted) by knowledgeable scholars, but compare this scenario to what you learned as a child (and was probably reinforced as an adult if you attend most any 'Christian' church.) I think many people believe these things without ever taking the time to question why.

It could have been worse! Crushed flier wins obesity payout Virgin Atlantic has paid a woman passenger £13,000 (US$20,289) compensation, after she was squashed by an obese person who sat next to her on a transatlantic flight. Barbara Hewson, from Swansea, south Wales, suffered injuries including a blood clot in her chest, torn leg muscles and acute sciatica and remains in pain two years on. The obese passenger had only been able to fit into her seat by raising the arm rest, which meant her body parts weighed down on Mrs Hewson. The injured woman had to be admitted to hospital in Los Angeles when the flight touched down and was bedridden for a month. Two years later, and after pressure on the airline to take her complaint seriously, Virgin agreed to pay her compensation. Before taking off, the freelance writer had complained in the first instance to the cabin crew about sitting next to the overweight woman, who had booked two seats on her outward bound flight to London, but not on the return leg. Attendants told Mrs Hewson the flight was full, with no other seats available. She said her experience of the 11-hour flight in economy class had been "horrific". Mrs Hewson added that she was now forced to walk with a stick and is still in pain. It is reported Virgin officials initially offered "a small basket of goods" worth £15 as compensation, but Mrs Hewson took forward her complaint. And after 18 months of pursuing her claim and undergoing medical examinations by Virgin's own doctors to prove the extent of her injuries, the airline agreed to a proper settlement. A statement by Virgin said Mrs Hewson's injuries arose from "an unprecedented set of extremely unfortunate circumstances". "We have apologised to Mrs Hewson and have offered her compensation, which she has accepted, and we are pleased that this has now reached a conclusion." In the United States, budget US carrier Southwest Airlines now charge larger passengers for two seats. But the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance has taken on airlines over discrimination against overweight people. The level of obesity in the US is now of major concern, but also in the UK, National Audit Office figures show one in five people are clinically obese. Vale of Glamorgan MP John Smith has fought a campaign against cramped economy class conditions, following a series of deaths from deep vein thrombosis (DVT), which have been linked to long haul flights.

Yes, exactly. I've never been comfortable with "the twist" on a daisy, primarily because I've never owned one. The handful of times I have used them I've always chosen to simplify it and 'clip only one.' And since this is the newbies forum, I'll add a little more detail than I normally would. Here's a graphic that shows how you can prove this to your self (and practice the twist, too, I suppose.) Please pardon my lack of artistic skills: Matt, could you provide a little more info on the "daisy twist"?

The labs and the chemicals themselves may not be so dangerous for a properly trained person, but the hoodlums lurking in the bushes watching to see what you're doing with their precious precious still can be... I'll have to say that working with Alasdair cleaning up a meth lab or two gave me a whole new appreciation for 'practical chemistry'.

I think daisys are often used improperly and dangerously. For instance, how many of us know that any biner should clip only one loop on a daisy? A common (and dangerous) practice I've seen is for a climber to clip the end loop and then shorten the daisy by clipping an additional intermediate loop to shorten the system. The proper (and only safe) way to shorten the daisy is to unclip the end loop and clip the intermediate loop by itself.

An interesting sidebar (speaking of using the lead rope to the max): Somewhere I picked up the technique of clipping the biner I use for my ATC through both the belay loop and the loop formed by the rope/fig8 knot while belaying. It adds a bit of redundancy to the system with absolutely no extra gear.

the other side of the coin: and a little more for those that missed the show.

Jesus, get some frickin' perspective! Those who choose to base their beliefs on a moldy old book that's been translated and transcribed hundreds (or even thousands) of times need to look at the hard evidence of what that process involves. Translation, by its very nature, introduces the biases of those doing the translation. A classic example of this, ironically, deals with the very topic of Christianity and Evolution (as long as one accepts the premise that Catholicism falls under the blanket of Christianity, which, in itself, is a debatable point). From this web page: Speaking in French, the Pope addressed the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on October 23, 1996 in which he addressed the subject of evolution. English translations of one key sentence include: "Today, more than a half century after this encyclical [Pius XII's 1950 encyclical Humani generis], new knowledge leads us to recognize in the theory of evolution more than a hypothesis." and "Today, almost half a century after the publication of the Encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of more than one hypothesis in the theory of evolution." My point is this: It's very easy for 2 people to translate a sentence from one language to another and come up with sentences that mean the exact opposite of the other. Imagine how many times this must have happened while the Bible was being translated from Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek to Latin to the vernacular languages by 'scholars' who weren't necessarily native speakers of the languages the 'scriptures' were originally written in. In addition, the oldest versions of the scriptures available are copies that have been transcribed numerous generations from the originals (read numerous opportunities for introduction of error or addition of any particular scribe's personal views into the texts.) On another note, the order of the creation of the species does not match the fossil record. If memory serves me correctly, man came at the end of the creation account, the ultimate earthly creation of God. The fossil record clearly shows man branching off the evolutionary bush before hoofed animals.

CBS, I almost posted a similar comment the other day, but then I realized that the perlon can often have double duty use, too. It can be used as a rap anchor or a sling, and is cheaper to leave than a spectra sling.

so is creationism.

no, but the 125 dirt bike got crashed too much while we were in our teens.

A low-tech low-cost system I've seen used where one can set up a toprope is a series of fig8s or butterflies tied 5 to 10 feet apart, rope anchored at the top, 2 cowtails on the harness leapfrogged up the loops as you climb. Just make sure the cowtails aren't longer than your reach. One really old fart told me he used to dangle a rope down a cliff (anchored at the top) and when he felt like he was going to fall he just grabbed the rope with his hand to stabilize himself. Either he had brass balls or it was fairly low angle.

Sobo, we stalked each other with bb guns thru haystacks that had been moved into a corner of a field near the sileage bunker, and thru cornfields. A long grazing scar underneath one of the cuz's eyes put a stop to that game. My most notorious fire involved a haystack. It was my great grand father's funeral day and we were out playing with magnifying glasses and corn husks on top of a stack...pure genius. It was a bit humiliating for us kids when the vollunteer fd had to come out and assist our grieving family. More great fun: tying our home made go carts to the hitch on a pickup and cruising down the gravel roads. going thru chutes in the river in canoes and trashing the hell out of them "skiing" with a water ski tow rope tied to a bumper on snowy roads where there wasn't a hill in sight. tipping 12' sail boats over 180 degrees in the lake just for the hell of it...and for the fun of uprighting them again. Once the mast stuck in the muddy bottom when we weren't out far enough. driving in the hay field with my cousin when neither of us were tall enough to push the gas pedal, steer, and see out the windshield all at the same time. we took turns steering and pushing the accelerator.

My argument would stand if it were assumed that the casing WAS blown apart....which has been my whole point on this pointless thread.

My hunch is that it's a matter of TIME. If the powder burned slowly and released it's energy gradually, then the force could dissipate out the end of the casing. But, if the power burns quickly there may not be time for that to happen and more force would be exerted against the sides of the casing. Consider the extreme case where a flammable substance contained in a compressed gas cylinder ignites. The pressure plug could blow and/or the valve/regulator could blow off the top of the tank if the combustion is slow. If the combustion reaction is fast (which most are) the tank could be ripped open because there just wouldn't be enough time for the energy of the reaction to dissipate thru the end of the cylinder. Again, it's just my hunch on this point...I'm nearing the end of my desire to pursue this much more.

It really sucks to argue with Issac Newton. Nice try Cracked. Anybody who was awake in HS Physics realized you were refering to Newton's 3rd Law in your original post. I'm not debating whether or not the slug will move, there most certainly will be a small force exerted on the slug, but I still say it will 'stay put' (for all intents and purposes, within the boudaries of the fire). To a certain extent, it's semantics. Does moving an inch in a bonfire constitute 'staying put'? That's an open-ended question. Regarding your application of Newt's 3rd Law, please consider the fact that the casing in not elastic (in fact far from it)...that is a significant factor. In addition, force is applied outward all throughout the casing, as well as to both ends. The ratio of inside surface area of the casing compared to the surface area of one end of the slug would be a rough approximation of the ratio of the total force that would be exerted on each 'body' (casing and slug). I don't have the time or inclination to look up the densities of brass vs lead to look at the whole F=ma concept. More important that the relative densities would be the fact that the brass is thinner and easily fragments while the lead slug tends to remain a single body. The small chunks of brass can come screaming out of the fire when the gunpowder ignites.

Sure, a little of the energy resulting from the combustion of the gun powder is used to separate the slug from the casing, but what happens to the rest of the energy? It either accelerates the casing, ruptures the casing, or both. edit: and all the force normally used to accelerate the slug as it travels down the length of the gun barrel is used to accelerate the casing, rip it apart, or both.

Cracked: I beg to differ with you about what happens in acutality. The principle you cited is true. However, given the very LIGHT nature of the brass casing of the cited .22 caliber round compared to the relatively HEAVY lead slug, the casing (or fragment of the casing) will have a much higher velocity and move further (on the order of at least 2 magnitudes in my estimation). The lead slug will most likely not move significantly given the probability that the slug is oriented 'down' after being tossed into the fire. Being in contact with the ground further reduces the likelyhood that the slug will move. In effect, even if the slug moves as much as an inch or two inches, it essentially stays put....compared to shrapnel ripping out of the fire and causing damage. Given a larger round with thicker (and heavier) brass your assertion may be more true.