Marvin

How about Godzilla - City Park? Gorilla My Dreams? Marvin. -------------------------------- "...life, in the end, cannot be understood."

quote: Originally posted by Dennis Harmon: No, Ian, I'm definitely not an "electic personality." (Usually, people don't even like me) You must have a better dictionary than me. What I am though is an enigma, like a Chink, and will always keep you guessing. Dennis You're a fuck. Die. Marvin

I was thinking of having a go at Thin Red Line this weekend. Has anyone been to Washington Pass recently? Curious as to how much snow there was. Thanks for any info! Marvin

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I already cracked all the eggs and shot the birds, Figger 8 Putz. So you're special? The FS does have the capability to effectively shut climbing down. You can't stay off one measly rock until the closure is finished? Can't go climbing somewhere else? Figure you need some attention? Marvin

quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: Jumping to the conclusion that everyone involved was just simply stupid, and that there is absolutely no excuse for this to have happened hardly qualifies as an objective statement. From the article it seems the two teams of firefighters just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like you said, you don't know what caused the parties above to fall, and I'm pretty certain everyone was aware of the risks of climbing below others. There is no way for climbers to avoid being above one another on this route unless you form two seperate lines of ascent and descent on either side of the schrund. Maybe we should go up and post signs and arrows to do this? Maybe I should take you through this? Perhaps you can't understand the whole tense/context thing? I'll try: quote: Original: Having climbed Hood via the Hogsback just a couple of weeks ago it's quite easy to see why incidents like this will happen. Inexperience coupled with arrogance. While I can't know the state of those killed, may they rest in peace, or those involved in precipitating this incident, there was a disgusting amount of poor decision making on display when I was there. Quite specifically points out that I don't know whether or not the people killed were idiots. Or am I missing something? quote: Original: A woman, crawling on her hands and knees up the ridge, utterly terrified; a man who slipped, fell and only barely managed to stop himself from sliding. People who shouldn't have been there. People who should be learning how to climb on routes within their capability.That whole tense/context thing. Refers to the people I saw on Hood; not those recently involved. Pretty obvious, no? quote: Original: The level of blatant idiocy that is increasingly visible as climbers become more numerous is expectable; the fact that in this pursuit you'll die if you're an idiot seems to be lost on the majority of them.One of those general statements, not specifically intended for any one person or group. Pretty accurate too, wouldn't you say? quote: Original: Barring an avalanche, strike of lighting, or heart attack, there is absolutely no excuse for a rope team to fall down this route. One person into a crevasse, sure, that happens. But not seven. That's stupid.Now here I am talking about the recent accident! It is stupid for seven people to fall into a crevasse because one person couldn't stop. Utterly dumb. And there is no excuse for a rope team to fall down this route. One person, sure; then everyone arrests. If they can't arrest, they don't tie in or they use running pro. If you can't arrest on the Hogsback, just what the hell are you doing with an ice axe? quote: Original: This isn't to say that this is precisely what caused the Hood incident; it is, however, a possibility, and definately something that will become more common.There I go again, pointing out that this isn't necessarily what caused the Hood incident. Could've been. Do you deny that? I'm curious where you've come up with this argument that I'm saying the recent Hood incident *was* caused by stupidity? I am saying that it's tragic; dead people aren't a happy occurrence. Preventable? Probably. Most things are. If you operate from the perspective that a terrible tragedy has happened (one death is a terrible as a million, to whoever is involved), then you can take two courses of action. 1 - say it's unfortunate, sad, the people involved were unlucky, "God I hope it doesn't happen again!", then nothing more 2 - the above, then ask yourself, "What could have caused this? How could these causes be prevented in the future?". I like to take the second course. Do you discourage speculation on cause? Would you say that my theories are wild, hairy beasts that have no relevance to the data at hand? Somewhat tame, possibly understandable ideas with a thread of relevance? Sound, concrete examples of clear, rational thinking? As opposed to qualifying my statements, be bold; make something original. Do it! What do you think causes an incident like the one on Hood? quote: Original: Marvin That's me. Marvin

quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: I guess if you were around, Marvin, it wouldn't have happened...? Trivial rhetoric! As stated, I don't know precisely what caused this incident. Those below the initial team were in an unfortunate position, but one that they should have been completely aware of. Being underneath a person is the same as being underneath a rock; hazardous. If I'd been there it still would have happened. That's obvious. You've made an amateurish attempt at ignoring what I feel are objective, accurate comments; namely, there is a significant increase in climbers climbing in an unsafe manner, which will inherently result in an increase in stupid incidents. Marvin

Having climbed Hood via the Hogsback just a couple of weeks ago it's quite easy to see why incidents like this will happen. Inexperience coupled with arrogance. While I can't know the state of those killed, may they rest in peace, or those involved in precipitating this incident, there was a disgusting amount of poor decision making on display when I was there. A woman, crawling on her hands and knees up the ridge, utterly terrified; a man who slipped, fell and only barely managed to stop himself from sliding. People who shouldn't have been there. People who should be learning how to climb on routes within their capability. The level of blatant idiocy that is increasingly visible as climbers become more numerous is expectable; the fact that in this pursuit you'll die if you're an idiot seems to be lost on the majority of them. Barring an avalanche, strike of lighting, or heart attack, there is absolutely no excuse for a rope team to fall down this route. One person into a crevasse, sure, that happens. But not seven. That's stupid. This isn't to say that this is precisely what caused the Hood incident; it is, however, a possibility, and definately something that will become more common. Marvin