iain

You are either with us, or you are the enemy. It's like an atari game really.

Of course you would agree with him. After all both of you appear to be relics of the cold war, where the only way you can identify yourselves as Americans is to have a clear and defined common enemy, to band together around the rallying cry of war as in so many Tom Clancy novels. Now once again we must engage in a fight against somebody in order to prove to ourselves we are patriotic Americans. We feel insecure fighting terrorists as we cannot point to something with substance and say "we are against that". A war with Iraq, a country of quantitative structure and a recognized head of state renews this unity of purpose, and in some sick way, renews our self-confidence and stability in our world view. It's disgusting. Reading about Rumsfeld's past, and how his worldview is one where everyone is out to get him is both enlightening and disturbing. He is a master of the press conference, unfortunately, so I have to see his face represent me internationally every night.

he joined the board of directors for Apple Computer.

Ah the charming GregW government lesson, teaching the ignorant masses how our country works. have not seen one in awhile. I think erik is saying the right to protest this total garbage of an administration is fundamental. Don't want to put words in his mouth though, I'm sure he's got plenty to say on his own.

actually quite a few poor suckers did too. esp. in the midwest.

check this out. are you kidding me?

ah, the crowd from Julius Caesar.

agreed. non-violent protest has always been a part of this nation's history.

A worthy troll, but I'll take it. How bold of you to have such convictions. You truly are a dinosaur.

ah refreshing new material. Jefferson would be proud.

but iain what about recycling? I've been recycling paper here at work, at least I thought so when I caught the cleaning people dumping my paper stuff into the main trashcan that ticks me off more because I know that crap is going on behind the scenes in offices all over the place. recycling is not a choice, it's a f'ing requirement.

NICE! That's right RobBob the well-camoflaged wobbegong from Australia!

remember you would have to give up all nylon and polyester fleece materials, goretex jackets, milk jugs, etc, etc, etc, etc

I agree with you RobBob from a conflict logistics standpoint. I believe many of those protestors were not helpful. I was particularly disappointed to see some american flag burning in Portland. In fact I feel I am being a true American by protesting this disgusting change in global relations our out-of-control executive branch has developed, and would in fact be waving the flag in opposition to this unprovoked offensive, as grotesque and nauseating as that might seem to some "patriots etc etc" this board. Yes, the protests weaken our international cause. But to tell you the truth, I'm ashamed to be linked to this conflict as a so-called American and I see the protests as a way of making that clear.

Hmm not quite patronizing enough for this bbs yet Tom, but you're getting there.

yes for further strategy, consider the campaigns of 1095-1101, 1145-47, 1188-92, Constantinople 1204, Damietta, 1217, 1228-29,1239, 1249-52, 1270. Worked for those guys!

but my joke was a clever allusion to another climbing product with a dubious name

this is almost as good as those guys who pour water in funnels on each side of the equator

^2

reminds me of the "egg drop" we had in high school. Idea was to come up w/ a material that could keep an egg from cracking when dropping it from a couple stories up. Could only be a certain thickness. All these folks came up w/ elaborate devices. I forgot to bring something, but luckily had not eaten my PBJ yet. Almost won the thing w/ the sandwich. Moral of story is pad your climbing helmet with peanut butter, strawberry jam and cheap ass wonder bread.

you're missing out over in drul10k