priapism

Well, I know who the yodeling partner was......

Ditto what mattp said. The east ledges really aren't bad at all, but I've only done them dry. They could be a little sketch with snow/wet rock. I've done the aforementioned decent to the left of the couloir (west of it, left as you're looking from boston basin), very reasonable too. Easy 2nd/3rd for the first part from the notch, then 3rd/4th. With some easy downclimbing (a little exposure, not too bad), I seem to recall making 2, maybe 3 single rope raps to the snow. It really only gets steep toward the bottom if memory serves. I'd take the couloir itself or the rock, which ever had less people to kick crap on me.

OK, I knew my last comment would hack some of you off, but I was just trying to make a point. I'm really not the asshole some of you might think. The fact they give us a heads up doesn't justify event. 50 people!?! Yes, I agree, they are all going to be at crags most of us don't care about anyway, but what about the poor saps who come up to L'worth to climb at one of those roadside piles and (realistically) can't? If they are just going to happily move their ropes aside and allow someone else to climb "their" crag, then they are Mounties the likes of which I have never seen before. I know the whole Mountie arguement had been done time and time again, and we don't need to rehash it now, but come on! Their mission statement goes on and on about protecting the natural environment; ever walk in behind a group of 10 or 15 of them to an alpine climb and see what kind of impact they have? Or trip over the bolts they have placed next to a crack because on of their "climbing leaders" got the chop when his pro pulled? Really guys, I'm not trying to troll or be a dick, but gimme a break...... Am I the only one who feels this way?

Does advertising that an event is going to happen make it OK? If Osama Bin Ladin had told us he was going to take down the towers, would that have made it alright? I know comparing the Mounties to someone like Bin Ladin will really offend some people out there, and to those of you from Al Quida, I really do apologize.......

Now that's what I call "minimizing impact"

Gee, only 50.......

Andrew, look at it as a blessing. I have seen firsthand some completely f**ked up stunts they have pulled and messes they have gotten themselves into in the hills, not to mention their "policeman of the mountains" attitude. They belong to a group that advocates the preservation of the wilderness, yet insist on going into the hills with a minimum group size of 10 to 12. Or bolting alpine rock right next to a great crack, simply because one of their "climbing leaders" fell to his death there when his pro pulled. Gimme a break...... You were saved just in time if you ask me.

I seriously doubt 20 acres in the Icicle is going to go for anything close to $100,000; try three or four times that......

Yes, sorry for the confusion, Airlift Northwest... I imagine whoever was involved in the accident will know someone who frequents this site, so we should all know eventually. Here's what I know: fall occured on the lower town wall early this afternoon, reports of serious head injury, fractures, but still conscious after accident (that's good). Landing zone set up and patient flown to Harborview.

Anyone know the details of the fall this afternoon at the lower town wall? Flown out by Airlift......

Assuming you're doin the Butt, I'd say a lot would depend on when you're going to be up there. Fairly late season (we summited at the end of June) we had people giving us fuel (as well as food) right and left. They carried it around on sleds at the 14k camp, giving it away to avoid packing it down or pitching it. If I were to do it again during the same time frame, I'd leave Kahiltna Base with a stoveful of fuel and two powerbars....

Maybe it is time for someone else to lead the cattle. But who could argue about the experience of the RMI guides, as the P.I. states about ten times.... "From Ed Viesturs, the only American to climb the six highest peaks in the world without oxygen, to Eric Simonson, who led the 1999 Everest expedition that found British climber George Mallory's body, some of the world's most experienced mountaineers have led RMI climbs " What routes were those again? Oh, that's right, they were the lines of the first ascents, done back in the sixties by guys in knickers with 85cm axes. Not to take anything away from Ed, as he's surely qualified to lead trips up Rainier, but it's kinda funny the papers call guys like that "the best climbers in the world." I know I'm preaching to the choir, just thought it was amusing. (And maybe trolling a little for RMI guides out there....)

Hey, I'm not a lurker anymore, I'm a wanker

backcountrydog: Search my previous posts on this thread; this was one of the arguements I brought up at my trial - that the USFS does not provide for a way to register dissent for the program, other than not buying a pass, or not going to the woods. The judge said the Government had proved their case, that I was parked somewhere a pass was required and didn't have one. Check my posts a few pages back, or PM me. I'm still awaiting a final decision on my case.....

Went up on Saturday to see if the NE ridge was worthy of it's inclusion in Nelson's second volume, knowing a little bit about the quality of the rock on Black Peak. I guess I would have to say it is, but just barely. The approach was unbelieveably easy, only a couple hours to wing lake. From there, it's a scree slog, with a couple low angle patches of snow, to the notch on the NE ridge. We had axes (as were wearing five-tennies) but didn't need them. The first 500 feet or so (laterally) were pretty ugly, loose 2nd, then 3rd class, either on the crest or just left (east) of it. I was thinking this route was going to blow. Then all of a sudden, the rock became (somewhat) solid, and the exposure excellent. About 3 50m pitches right on the crest, up and over several small gendarmes, still a few loose blocks and boulders pearched here and there. It never felt harder than 5.0-5.2, mostly exposed 4th. Fun pitches. Pretty good gear, I'd say our rack was about the right size, allowing for fairly good length simul-climbing. We took cams 1 each: 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, three TCU's, four wires (never used) and some slings (bring double length). After the fun pitches, the ridge flattens out abruptly and you can unrope for 10-15 minutes of 3rd to the summit. The descent is loose, but really easy (mostly 2nd) and over quickly. Quite a bit of work for the amount of climbing (I guess what Nelson says), but it is a big peak with great views of Goode (reason enough to do it), and the middle pitches were quite cool. Still can't figure out how the heck the south route made the book, at least late season anyway, probably a lot better in the spring. Looks like we may have squeezed in one of the last ascents before the snow is gonna fly. We watched the weather come in saturday afternoon, completely obscuring Baker by the time we summited at 2. All in all, worth the trouble.

Although I don't have the gift of eloquent speech as Mitch does, I do agree with him. To the people who think it's too much work to fight, or don't have the time, don't complain later when the program is permanent and no longer a "demonstration program". You may remember my post a while back about my NW Forest Pass case. The judge took the case under advisement pending additional info. from the US Attorney's office - that info. has been received and I responded to it. I'm now awaiting the final decision. I will post the results here when I hear back, if this thread is still about the pass and not the Klan or something.

Yeah, 36 CFR 261.15. The magistrate agreed that the government had met their burden of proof that I didn't have a pass. He was very sympathetic to my arguements, but said they were better suited to the political arena than the courtroom however. But I think I'm going to walk because of a technicality. I have learned not to tell them anything when you call the intern to set up a trial - if you just say you have a pass (maybe it wasn't visable - whatever) they will more than likely drop it I hear. I had a sign in the window protesting the NW Forest Pass, and the ranger took pictures (which were displayed at me trail), and that's why they decided to go after me, I think.

This being for the Snow Lakes approach, which is definately the better of the two this time of year.

With daypacks moving at a fairly good pace, roughly 5 hours from the car to the base of the first pitch. With overnight gear or a more leisurely pace, add accordingly.

Regarding the NW Forest Pass, I have some firsthand info that may be very beneficial to those who don't buy passes or may want to fight a violation in court. I've been receiving both the nice "you didn't pay your money" notices and actual violations for several years, and nothing has ever come of it. On June 6, I was parked at the Snow Creek TH in Leavenworth and received a $50 ticket for "failure to have a valid NW Forest Pass." I ignored it, but a month later I got a "Notice To Appear" in the mail, directing me to pay or show up at a hearing at the Federal Courthouse in Yakima. It also said if I planned on contesting it to call the U.S. Attorney's intern in Spokane. I called, and made the mistake of speaking with him about the violation (more on that later). To make a long story short, I showed up at the hearing, entered a plea of not guilty, and had a trail date set for Aug. 23. At the trial, I spoke at length about the NW Forest Pass, citing that it is, at present, an extension of the Fee Demonstration Program and paying is discretionary, not mandatory; that it is a fee charged for recreation, and I was not witnessed recreating; that it is only (unfairly) charged to motorists and not those who access the trailheads by other means; that it discriminates against people of low income; and so on. Basically I hit all the arguements that are out there, emphasizing that the goal behind the program is increased privatization of our public lands. The issuing officer was there, and I had a chance to cross-examine him. He stated he did not witness me driving/parking the vehicle or participating in any recreational activity, but only that he observed my vehicle parked there. The Government produced pictures of my vehicle and pictures of the sign saying passed were required, presumably because I had a large sign in my windshield saying "Northwest Forest Pass, Don't Buy It!" After we all said our peace, the Judge (who was quite cool, by the way) basically said although he sympathized with my position, my arguements were much better suited to the political arena than the courtroom. He felt that the Government had met the burden of proof to show my vehicle was there and did not have a pass. However, the question was raised as to why the violation was even mailed to me in the first place, as there are two names on the registration. Under questioning, the officer said he "just sends it to the guy, I guess". The ticket itself just has the vehicle information - a registration check is done by computer, and then the violation gets a name attached to it. So the Judge is taking this case under advisement, waiting for the intern-Attorney to provide him with case law showing how the violator is picked from a registration with two people, and I should hear back in a week or so. I wanted to win based on principle, not a technicality, but we'll see. So what did I learn? Don't put a protest sticker in your windshield, as I'm sure that is why they decided to prosecute me. Don't buy a pass, and if you get an actual violation, ignore it. When the notice comes in the mail and you call the intern, DON'T SAY ANYTHING. In my passion for this issue, I pretty much told the guy I didn't have a pass, why I thought it was wrong, and that I was looking forward to going to court. He obviously thought he had a winning case on his hands, and that's why it didn't get dismissed by the U.S. Attorney's office. Remember, this is an intern who wants to win cases and move up through the system. He's not going to take on a weak case. When you call, don't tell them anything, just decline comment. I would be surprised if they followed through and didn't just drop it. If you do go to trial, the burden of proof is on the Government to show you didn't have a pass. If you don't hand them their case (like I did), they don't have too much to go on. The more of these we can take to trial, the better for our cause. And restating what several people have said earlier, get involved! Call your congressmen, educate other trail users. If we don't beat this now, it will be much harder down the road. If you're going to fight one, feel free to PM me; I learned more about beating these than I have time to discuss here. Hope that helps.

Looks like Goode to me.......?