Terminal_Gravity
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Posts posted by Terminal_Gravity
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Clearly the bolt issue is very important to all of us. It gets some of the most colorful responses. I have been accused of making "wise-ass" comments. That may be true, but only with the hopes of sparking constructive thought about a subject with permanent ramifications.
I have read over a hundred postings on this site relating to bolts. I think that Caveman had the right idea about a bolt issue page; but its just to big for just one page. Why is that? It is because of the permanence and dramatic change that bolts make for the climbing experience.
We talk about safety versus damage to the enviroment. Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. If you stop to really think about it, thats so much retoric and bull shit that it makes you want to puke.
What is safe about a climber that only knows how to pull a quick draw and clip; he probably hasn't taken the time to properly learn rope handling, can't inspect the integrity of the bolt, and if it was bad what could he possibly do?
And damage to the environment? Please; you know as well as I do that every time you fill you tank and drive to the crags or walk over fragile alpine plants your doing more to harm the environment than a bolt does.
The real reason for bolts ( right or wrong) as I see it can be distilled down to these three reasons.
Conveniece and accessability:
Bolts enable people who don't have (or didn't bring) enough gear to otherwise climb a route. When have you ever seen a TR that could not be protected by a long sling and some clean pro? Very rarely. And everyone knows how much easier it is to draw and go than it is to fumble for just the right stopper.
Bolts enable people to climb harder routes than they otherwise safely could:
Hang dog enough times and you will probably get it. And if there is a bolt every 4 ft instead of every 30 (or 70) you don't have to be comfortable at the grade to try it.
Protection of or connection of otherwise blank quality routes:
The spacing is decided by the first accent party and in my opion should never ever be shortened. If the following parties can't climb it safely they should find another route and come back when they can.
I think that sport areas, just like climbing gyms, are a good thing. My hardest grade was from hang dogging at Smith; and it was kind of fun but it was not a climbing experience to me. I think that it is a very good thing that there are places like that for people to climb if that is what they are into.
The CRUX of the bolt subject , as far as I see it this:
Part of mountaineering and climbing for some people is adventure and figuring out on their own how to work with the rock to fight against gravity. A climber can choose how much beta they want; and therefore how much adventure they want to give up. But once a bolt is placed that part of adventure is gone forever and all those who follow will never be able to experience it. Even if most climbers will use and even appreciate a bolt next to a difficult to protect crack or one placed in between bolts that were placed by the first party; I think that it is terribly wrong to take away the possibility of exploration and adventure from all of thos who might follow. No one has the right to climb a route, they have to earn the ability. No one has the right to take the adventure out of climbing for all those who may want to follow.
"I don't care if the rotary club climbs Everest all sucking O's through houka pipes connected to a giant tank at base camp; as long as they leave the mountain the way they found it"...Chounard
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Dru- I think that is just Erwins technique to increase his number of posts so that he can catch up to the likes of you.
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Beck, you are right about the spike, it blows on ice or even really firm neve. But I have to disagree with the your caution on a boot/axe belay. IMO
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I'm glad that starting this thread started so many positive comments and I agree with the collective attitude. It took experienceing some of the negative aspects of number chasing for me to grow up enough to concentrate on the fun. (It seems that most of you are more cogniscent of the value of self esteem versus big egos) I wish that I had the attitude that you guys do when I was younger.
As Will eluded to, climbing long relatively hard routes in reasonable form can be very personnally rewarding - and therefore fun. However, any pushing into new personal arenas can be equally rewarding. In August I free soloed The Exum on the Grand Teton in a day. I had never free soloed any thing more than a couple of pitches long and had never climbed in the Tetons. I had one of the best times of my life. Clean rock, spectacular views, great exposure no encumberance from ropes or gear and all that at 5.5. I highly recommend it.
Thanks for all the responses.
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Lucky Fuckers, Thanks for the dose of depression, Dru.
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Will,
It is my understanding that in unpublished tests even an 8.1mm rope will hold exactly one UIAA single rope leader fall, but you MUST retire it afterwards. That is an expensive weight savings, but only if you fall.
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I would like to hereby sincerely post my deepest gratitude to Captain C and the Dru for helping me make up my mind about spending the wad of cash to head up to Banff (what kind of name is Banff any way). I'm not going.
Dru- I might be asking to borrow your couch for the Vancouver fest...I'll bring a keg or two.
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Yes Yes...all of the above.
And then there is the food question, My answer is cream cheese, GU, cytomax, Ramen, beef sticks, olive oil and warm runny gelitin. Never ever bring Mountain House. Concentrate on usable calories / ounce (packaged). Ramen is my exception to this rule but with the olive oil poured on it is still a good weight saver.
The money saved on ramen instead of Mtn. House allows you to by GU which is so hard to choke down that you eat less and bring even less weight.
Also, get rid of all those extra zippers and zipper handles. When does some one really need to be able to open their pack from two directions weather they are outside or inside of it. I acctually removed more weight from extra zippers than my head light (tikka) and my stove (giga-power) weighs - combined.
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It's in Banff (Canadian Rockies - about 9 hours from Spokane) 10/29 through 11/4. Although 11/ 2 3 & 4 are the days to go.
Check out their web site for lots of info. I don't know how to enclose a active blue line thing but just search for "Banff Centre for Mountain Culture"
Also, I bet Dru knows all the beta.
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Cool, Darin...Sorry I was just trying to make a joke.
On the light axe subject. I have a Grivel Racing Alpine axe 12oz 65cm. I love it. A forged steel head with a great feel in the self arest position and a good balance for a swing if it gets steep. I compared it to a friends 12oz Cassin which seemed like a fragile toy.
[This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-09-2001).]
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Thanks for the info Matt.
It seems that light weight climbing is about the second favorite thing on this forum.
Soooo... I just want to add one more comment.
I think that a three foot crow bar made of titanium would work almost as well as the standard 4ft steel jobs for pulling bolts and save about seven pounds. ;D
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Is anyone going to the Banff Centre for Mountain Culture Film Festival? Carpool? Share room expenses?
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I tried the bogus note about just parking to carpool on my dash trick. It worked! No Ticket - and other cars had them.
The trail head I use most often is about 1/2 from the national Forest boundry. There is a spur trail off the main one before the boundry. It seems that even if a ranger catches me with a rack jangleing coming back to my car all I have to do is say that I never went into the National Forest and I couldn't be ticketed.
Any thoughts on that?
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Ken, do you have your dates nailed down yet.
Since you started this post and so many have responded let us know when you will be there and maybe we can pick our dates around yours.
By the way; I just bought really cheap tickets to Argentina ( $749 Portland-Mendoza) for this January. I think fare wars have started and buying tickets to Bolivia soon might save some pesos.
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I was talking to a fellow climber yesterday. He was sharing how much fun he had climbing rock, ice, glaciers...anything that would not leave him buried under snow or at the bottom of a cliff bleeding out. And then, he kind of sheepishly told me that he only leads 10A.
What is it about the numbers that makes people worry about their value as a person. I think that is a sad part of our sport. If you have fun climbing (and don't die doing it) I say that is all the sucess that you need.
If pushing your limits is fun, then do it; if climbing below your top limits is fun then do that and don't feel bad about it not being as big of a number as another climber.
From personal experience in the early eighties I pushed my limits in Yosimite, it was what I wanted to do. Was it fun? I don't really know anymore...maybe not. When I started leading 11's I lost my partner (and best friend) of 9 years. It wasn't fun for him anymore. After I put my name on a first ascent that later was upgraded to 12A, I knew that to climb bigger numbers I was going to have to spend alot more time on diet, lifting weights and less time with friends drinking beer and enjoying life. I even considered steriods. But instead of doing all that I just quit rock climbing for several years. I was climbing for the numbers and it's pretty clear that I wasn't having fun anymore. I should have been climbing more - not harder.
My 2 cents is...concentrate on the fun and not the numbers and don't ever be little anyone or yourself for not climbing big numbers.
[This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-09-2001).]
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I got snowed off a rock climb in the Eagle Cap yesterday. The Mountains had a good coat this morning.
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Maybe we could get a fund together to help pay for the cost of chopping bolts near cracks in trad climbing areas.
Oh no not another bolt topic!
[This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-08-2001).]
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As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing better ( or better for you) after a long day of GU & Cytomax than a big Greasy Cheese Burger with a side of prime rib and a pitcher of beer. If you play hard enough and burn those calories climbing, then eat what ever you crave. Unless, of course, you're trying to become the next Bobbi Bensman. I'm not and I'll bet Caveman is not either. My 2 cents.
[This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-03-2001).]
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I'll give you a good price for your rock hammer and 1 #1 camalot. What kind of hammer is it. Shoot me a fair price & I'll send you a check. Thanks
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I used to eat those sesame snack crackers... but even I couldn't stand my own stench. Fart City.
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I gotta agree with Will S. (unless you only want a sport harness). Don't consider a harness without a full strength rear loop. They are just too handy and may just save your butt if something else screws up.
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I entered Canada on sept 13. A drivers license was all I needed but I guess our freedoms are already changing. Bummer.
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Thanks for the info, Ken.
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I have a rather large collection of Forest park pass signs that I have collected. The early vintage are crappy paper ones; but the newer models are this really nice UHMW plastic. They make good anti-snow plates for your crampons.
[This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-01-2001).]
freshies have arrivied
in Climber's Board
Posted
I envy you Dru...I've always thought that sleeping with ex-girl friends was better than sleeping with the current ones.