Nelly

Eric - can you shed any light on this subject?

David Parker - Yes, they specifically ask about climbing and the extent of your involvement. They also identify flying, scuba diving, and travel outside the US (go figure), as dangerous activities. I believe a comprehensive statistical study would prove that climbing is no more dangerous than driving to the market, bicycle riding or basket weaving. However, the insurance industry has "tagged" it as dangerour, thus higher rates. I do purchase insurance through my employer and they have an exclusion policy regarding dangerous activities. I tried to get the insurance company to negotiate an exclusion - no dice! However, I just learned that Northwestern Mutual Life does offer rates commesurate with ones level of climbing involvement.....typical cascade climbs, no sweat, head for the big hills in Alaska or Nepal, you'll pay more - that seems fair and I'll pursue further.

FreeClimb9 - Check out this site! A group of MIT PhD's have, indeed, performed a lot of drop testing. In fact, you can send inquireys via e-mail and they will test a system for you, time and money permitting. http://www.marlboro.edu/~mahoney/DropTest/DropProposal.html I still advise against using the girth hitch on a nut or sling unless it was my only option.

I don't think I have the guns to pull off big, single push climbs. As for personal style, I'm more in line with "W" I enjoy, going light and fast on big alpine routes, but don't have a desire to just go until it's done. I've pulled off some BIG days in Alaska and the Himalaya, but it was due to necessity, rather than style. However, I envy those like Wallstein and others who can pull off the big single push climbs - go with your strengths and pursue a style that fulfills your own personal goals.

Wallstein - nice post. Just curious - why are doing big single push climbs? Is that the style you enjoy or are there other contributing factors. Very impressive indeed!

Hmm, is Allison's ability to deceive herself one of her greatest talents?

Has anyone climbed the routes on Black Horse Point mentioned in Brian Burdo's book? He describes two multi-pitch routes: Archer, 5.8, 4 pitches and Pampas Drifter, 5.8, 8 pitches, both on good rock.

Allison - but it is the girth hitch. Self deception is your greatest talent. I recently had an encounter of the MAZAMA kind - anyone wish to spray on.......I think they girth hitch everything!

FreeClimb9 - Since you insist on attaching webbing to gear in a dangerous and unconventional fashion, perhaps you should consider threading the sling through the nut, other sling, cam, etc and clip both ends with the biner. That way, at least, you eliminate the girth hitch and minimize the danger (emphasis on "minimize"). Spray on Doctor

Can't say as I'd ever pick 'one" range of mountains over another, but.........the N. Cascades hold a special place in my heart as do the St. Elias mountains. However, since I grew up and learned to climb in the Sierra's, then......

Read up on the breaking strength of the girth hitch! http://www.putzl.com/~klew/knot.shtml In my opinion, what you're doing is very dangerous!

Campbell Group home office number (portland) 503-275-9675 ask for someone in the forestry department.........nicer and more cooperative than you might think!

Climbed the N. Buttress in September of 95' Access was via Access Creek. Carried an average alpine rack, a few pins, screws, and 2 pickets. Route finding is fairly straight forward with only a couple of mistakes made on our part. I recall the crux of the route being the snow gulley that provides access to the buttress was melted out in September. Rock is of varying quality. The final snow arete is worth all the work, while the descent was pretty rough (tired, dark, route finding decsions). A very worthy endeaver and a route that you will not forget! Moving fast is essential - so trim down that enormous pack and be ready to go when the weather forecast is SOLID!

http://www.mistymountain.com/entertainment/vampire.htmJust a story I ran across. I guess one of the appeals for a trip to Vampire Spires is the lack of information. Good luck, sounds like a blast!

What route? Is Denali your first big mountain? More info please...........

Payaso - not chest beating, just caught up in the moment and was surprised by your interpretation of my writting. Spray, no way, that's not why I use this website, all I want is some info regarding climbing.......... As my initial post indicated, I believe BeefCider can use what he learns in the 5 - 6 day course as a foundation for further learning. However, I still believe that the pursuit of knowledge, at one's own initiative, demonstrates a keen desire to pursue climbing. Different than those who sign up for a class and wait for instruction....difference between leading and following! Climb safe!

Eric - I agree wholeheartedly! I'm self taught, my partners are self taught, and most of the good climbers I encounter are self taught! I think being "self-taught" demonstrates a level of commitment and intensity beyond the normal! I'm sure this'll take some flak, as it does open the door to potential disaster. The very spirit of climbing is adventure and discovery with an the ever-present potential for disaster! Guiding and schools tend to dampen and dilute that spirit. Go ahead, counter me, but heck, if all the danger is removed from climbing, all you're left with is watching sports on television. Face it, danger and risk is at very the heart of the activity. We all try to mitigate the level of risk, but we can't eliminate it and still maintain the spirit of climbing......sorry getting a bit off the subject!

Payaso - what's a "Self-Taught Poster" mean anyway. Jeez, some of us learned to climb before climbing was main-stream. We didn't have gyms everywhere with schools and guide services scrambling for clients; our options were limited. So, you don't think I'm a real climber, with anything to offer. Oh well, I knew my comments would bring out the simpletons. However, I can distinquish between those who line up to join schools, climb in large groups and wait to be told how and what to do, and those who go looking for the information and then apply it themselves. They possess a certain spirit that you can't relate to. No, I don't recommend walking onto a glacier with nothing but an ice axe and cliff bar. Get real and quite reading between the lines.

I think the 6 day course that BeefCinder is planning to attend is probably (!) a better route than an introductory course offered by a local climbing club. Certainly, he has a far better chance of getting a talented and experienced instructor through RMI than say the Mountaineers or Mazamas. The local clubs tend to favor the "buddy system" rather than one's skills and depth of experience. Still, though, until guides in the USA are required to pass a certification program, it's still a crap shoot as to the quality of your guide (that's a can of worms, too!). Bottom line, it's tough getting started in climbing and it's equally as tough finding competant partners willing to take on beginners. I say take the course and use the beginning skills they'll teach you as a seed for further growth.

By the way - we never saw a soul! Surprised Mt Washington doesn't more winter action. In fact, rarely does anyone climb the east face routes, winter or summer - go figure, they're not that tough and the rock is better than one would expect.

We climbed the N.Ridge in the late 80's so cut me some slack on the details: approached via the sno-park by Hoodoo (sp?), just off the Hwy. We followed snomoble tracks to the west side of the lake (can't recall the name of the lake at the moment) and essentially traveled parallel to and higher than the PCT, always heading toward the North Ridge. After climbing the north ridge, we descended to treeline on the North Ridge and dropped onto the East Side of the mountain. We skied across the east face as far as the buttress that splits the Face (about 1/2 way to the SE Spur). Hope that makes sense.

Thanks Dick, yep the North Ridge is a good winter route. We did in fairly good conditions, although it still had my FULL attention - rime doesn't protect well! I've skied into the general area of the East Face but I didn't check out the complete route over to the SE Spur. Avy conditions have to spot on before I venture onto those slopes!

Dick - what do think the South East Spur on Mt.Washington would be like in winter? It's been rattling around my head for a number of years as a potentially good winter route. Just thinking and killing time in the office on Friday.

You are absolutely correct - S. Side and Leutholds get a lot of attention on Hood. I'm just as guilty though - I climbed the Reid HW last Saturday. And yes, it was the easy access that attracted me, as I was solo and operating on limited time. However, if more time and a partner were available ................then who knows! Bravo on your Jefferson ascent!

Certainly understand why Rob hates Henry. However, I still don't get why he doesn't spill the beans. I mean, shit, if I was left for dead I'd sure as hell make sure the SOB's lecture/climbing career was left in ruins! My guess is Rob Taylor is a class act and I couldn't rise to his level, climbing or otherwise.