Fairweather

You're worried about homelessness? Good God, man, there are people out there with substandard health insurance!

So, let's say your big gooey dream of single payer is finally realized here in Amerika. How much should this fictitious society spend to squeeze an extra year of life out of, say, a 78 year old guy like Ivan who has chain smoked all his life and now has stage 4 lung cancer? $250,000? $4 million? No limit? Sorry, but this is not tenable. And at the end of the day, is having a government bureaucrat make the final decision on Ivan's fate any less horrifying to you than letting the soulless invisible hand of the market make the same choice?

For God's sake, haven't you been watching Storage Wars?

Depends on who you define as poor. I'll bet that American poor are every bit the consumers of "frivolous bullshit" as any. Think WalMart.

Jay, don't bother them with facts while they're trying to steer the bus down the road to serfdom.

And don't forget, every much less human is good added benefit for environment!

Oh my, would ya look at the time... Shall I clock out now, or stay on for an extra shift?

Well, without TTK around to put your bowl out for you and stroke your belly from time to time I doubt you were going to last very much longer anyhow.

WOW! This is probably completely unique to the U.S. and obviously a major cause of our outrageously expensive health care system. Quite frankly, it mostly is. You seriously disagree?

True that. A big part of the problem is that we all think we're owed 80-90 years no matter the lifestyle we choose. Lifestyles aren't chosen, they're cultivated. I agree with this too--mostly.

Really? Is that a big part of the problem? I guess other western nations don't have this belief, and this is why their health and health care is better? Interesting. I had no idea that this was such a significant cause of our antiquated health care system. You should write an article on this, I don't think people have identified this as such a large factor. I bet between this and malpractice reform there would be no problems at all! I guess it'd be too much to ask a lap dog to stop yapping. I have no idea what you're trying to say--probably because you don't either. In any event, take a look at % of healthcare expenditures on persons in their last two years of life. Or, like prole said, big pharma's got a pill/treatment that might help you squeeze a few extra months outta that old abused carcass. But it's gonna cost you...

True that. A big part of the problem is that we all think we're owed 80-90 years no matter the lifestyle we choose.

Not sure how this is relevant at all, but yes, I've traveled throughout Mexico, Central, and South America and, of course, Canada. No, I've never had to use their medical systems in any manner. What's your point? BTW, you now owe me a direct answer to a future question of my choosing.

I'll just bet 'ole Daniel never fell off a ladder and cost his fellow frontiersmen $4 million in medical payouts.

Wow, the lengths libs will go to to prop up their failures. Do I want the Obamacare to fail? Hell yes, I think it's bad for the country. Do I like the "old system"? No. Again, all you have to do is visit the site and plug in whatever you want--income, dependents, etc.--and you might get an accurate quote. The final quote I received was $75/mo higher than what the site originally said. Still, I don't recall ever sharing the price with you in a PM--which, by the way, would be confidential. (Hence, the name private message.) But then, I'd expect no less from a little lap dog like you.

Again, I'll ask; could you afford it? And would you be happy about it?

Now you're just plain lying. Visit the site and see for yourself.

indeed, they did a most excellent job advocating for the status quo, which was crap. they have no better proposal though b/c they have no soul and see working people as glorified bunny rabbits: needing to be fruitful and multiply, consume as much as possible, then die ASAP. As opposed to your Democrats: aka the "free lunch" party

indeed, they did a most excellent job advocating for the status quo, which was crap. they have no better proposal though b/c they have no soul and see working people as glorified bunny rabbits: needing to be fruitful and multiply, consume as much as possible, then die ASAP. despite the nocaps this post be clearly ttk the real ivan doesn't feel the partisan hate like this

Actually, you suggested single payer with a separate market for those who want to insure (and can afford to) outside the system. Sounds like "separate and unequal" to me.

because if you have almost 50% of working people uninsured, the system is broken. Bullshit. Before Obamacare about 30-35 million were uninsured. By making illegal catastrophic policies, your president added another 5-12 million to that number. (Including me and my wife.)

Not my program, it's some bastardized Frankenstein version of Romneycare born of compromise with the insurance lobby and the attempts to gain Republican support for passage. In that sense, it's as much your program as anyone else's. WTF?? It got exactly Zero Republican support. It's YOUR program; don't try your weasel bullshit now. (I do like your earlier suggestion though.)

Sounds like you're getting milked by your insurance company. They loves them some high health care costs. HELLOOoo....This is Obamacare, Washington State version. I'm getting milked by your program! Geeez, you guys really don't have any clue, do you. the point, dear sir, is that, as gene says, it could be done much more cheaply via single payer as so many nations have shown, but the political reality, as of 2009-10, was that, if we wanted to do anything about the old shitty status quo (denial of coverage/service for those w/ pre-existing conditions and even those w/o perhaps, copay/deductible schemes that ensured medical bankruptcy whenever you got badly sick/hurt, no coverage or thoroughly worthless coverage for a big # of working poor, etc) we had to have this insurance-company blowjob hybrid that is obamacare. no republican, then or now (or indeed, ever), was going to vote for any species of reform, if for no other reason than it had obama-cooties all over it (thus the name), and plenty enough democrats are corporate whores too and they weren't going to do anything unless the proper palms were greased. christ, the public option, the best compromise it seemed to be for those who wanted a private market and lots of choices, and quiet far from a universal single payer system, was dead-as-dillinger on arrival - didn't even get serous consideration. the choice was status quo or ACA, absolute shit or shit of unknown dimensions. our nation's historical retard-genius for fixing problems has been half-assed solutions, usually so shitty they goaded the machine eventually, after bitter experience, into something better. best case, obamacare as written does work and makes even you and yours happy. the case i'll live w/ though is not unlike the whiskey-junkie who goes on a coke-binge and only at the bitter end of it all realizes there's a 3rd, better, option: coffee obamacare, if it doesn't work, will hopefully lead sane folks to realize the best thing to do is ditch the shitty corporate-approved compromise and try the model of our northern neighbors and euro-friends. sounds like i'm paying the same amount now for my insurance (single earner w/ a family 4 though) as you, and if it's of any value, i sure would like to be paying less. I wish you the best. Sounds like the state of Oregon needs to pony up.

Sounds like you're getting milked by your insurance company. They loves them some high health care costs. HELLOOoo....This is Obamacare, Washington State version. I'm getting milked by your program! Geeez, you guys really don't have any clue, do you. Avoiding the question. where did you get the $11K from? Is that equal to your new premiums? Yes. This would be my premium ($900/mo x12) under the Washington State plan--silver edition. And I'm not gonna pay it.

Sounds like you're getting milked by your insurance company. They loves them some high health care costs. HELLOOoo....This is Obamacare, Washington State version. I'm getting milked by your program! Geeez, you guys really don't have any clue, do you.