mattp

Maybe LawGoddess could invite us all to her condo up in Whistler?

Lambone - I already told you: sounds like you got a good one. You have an epic on Glacier Peak and she saves your ass ... then she still wants to go on a honey moon in the Canadian Rockies!!!

quote: Originally posted by Lambone: Having Dinner plates and running water at the same time is kinda odd. Usualy you have one or the other depending on temps...dinner plates when its cold, melting plastic ice when its warm. This statement applies more to waterfall ice than to alpine ice.

I agree with Lambone that the best way to learn to trad climb is to climb trad routes. But the initial post asked about learning to place gear. Aid climbing involves a lot of time spent placing gear and testing it, for sure. But leading a lot of trad climbs will offer opportunities to learn to hang from one hand while fiddling with gear and worrying about a fall and maybe not knowing where the route is going to go next.

quote: Originally posted by ryland moore: How about a backcountry winter rope-up invovling skiing and ice climbing? Any good spots up that way? Lillooet.

Beer and sausage.

quote: Originally posted by erik:

If something "down south" is desireable, how 'bout Mount St. Helens? There is a long history of spring ski parties down there.

I've only been skiing up at the Goat Rocks twice, but it seemed to me that, although it was a beautiful area, it was a lot of work for what we got out of it. From the west, it must be close to ten miles approach for ski runs that don't exceed a thousand feet. In the Spring, I bet there could be better access to some of the bowls east of the crest, but it'd be a long way from Seattle until after the Cayuse and Chinook passes open up. By then, the approaches to Mount Adams are probably starting to open up.

Dave - I see the merit in your argument here, because I have a hard time talking my ski buddies into going anywhere but highway 2 or Crystal Mountain. But I say talk it up and see who is really interested and then figure out what the priorities are and whether there will be much interest in a day trip option. If great sking in anything resembling an alpine environment is what folks are after, there really isn't anything easily accessible from highways 2 or 90 that fits the bill. OK, you might say that Jim Hill Mountain is awesome or the skiing is great up on Yodelin Ridge or something, but for real live alpine zone skiing on a weekend, it'd have to be Rainier, Washington Pass or Pemberton. In the Spring, a trip to Mazama could combine opportunities for rock climbing and skiing.

Goddess, we can have this debate about just about any place (for example, there are those who said Hatties Hat was too small and too smokey, though in the back room there was always plenty of room for our party and I don't remember any smoke). I've never been to Shultzy's but my comment about the inside of the Ballroom was based on the fact that it is dark, noisy, and i don'r remember there being more than a few tables in there - and small ones at that. My guess is that Schultzy's is better in these respects, and that the food is better, too. If not, I'd be willing to tough it out for one evening in the name of visiting a new place.

We heard you, Rob Bob. What you're saying is that you have plenty of heat to spare.

freeclimb, you may be right (thogh I have heard plenty of people debate this point). But in terms of weight to warmth, this is not a good payoff. For an extra pound of down, you can probably get a bag that is warmer by 25 degrees. Why else do you like the bivvy bag?

I've been up there skiing on Colonial and it is an attractive line. If you like that sort of thing, I don't think the route would be all that extreme under the right conditions. The approach is a little harder than one might expect because, although I believe it is about fifteen hundred feet from the highway to where you break out of the trees, the route is travelling on a side-hill and there are lots of logs to crawl over. The descent is straight-forward.

In another thread, Trask (who else?) reports "I use a 4-pt. Hudson's Bay Trapper blanket and a sweet little klootch I met to keep warm." I don't know the term "klootch," but I think he is referring to a female member of our species and he would probably want us to know that he doesn't just crawl under the blanket and go to sleep. My question is this: don't you (men) sleep warmer in your own bag than you do when zipped together with your (female) sweetie? It helps to have an extra down coat or something wrapped around your necks to reduce any draft, but still it has been my experience that all of my female partners over the years have been endothermic. If you've ever bivvied with your male partner and snuggled for warmth, didn't you find they were warmer than a female partner in the same situation? Is there some physiological reason for this?

quote: Originally posted by Ropegun2002: We marched out to the car, drove straight to the airport where my hands were checked for explosive residue six times (I still had black hands from pulling rope on the rappels) Glad to see our government is looking out for us.

Crackbolter - You make a good points about the breathability of the laminates. I believe it is particularly a problem in warmer weather (where there is less temperature differential between inside and outside the shell), so that is why my light weight bag does not have a laminated shell. As a side note: I have never carried a bivvy bag, yet it seems that everybody thinks this is an essential piece of gear. I have put my feet in my pack and pulled a raincoat over my upper body when bivvying in damp weather, and this has kept me damn near as dry as my buddies in their bivvy bags. In the Cascades, I rarely get caught by an unexpected shower anyway, and anytime I have gone out with the intention to camp out there has always been a tent or tarp in somebody's pack -- and often the other guys are carrying bivvy bags as well. What is so great about an extra pound of gear (or two-plus in some cases) that you really wouldn't want to spend a night in if the weather were truly shitty and is completely unnecessary if the weather is fair?

I'm with Beck on the feasibilty of down for extended trips. I use down bags for ski trips, carrying only a tarp (no tent or bivvy bag), and I bring my wet clothing in the bag to dry it out every night. I have one bag with a dryloft shell, but I have a lighter one without. Both work perfectly well and, even in wet or stormy weather -- with care -- I can keep my bag dry. I also like cooking while in the sleeping bag. If you use a tarp instead of a tent, the stove can be within arm's reach when you wake up in the morning. (But this is a digression and we've had the tarp v. tent debate more than once before.) And the Svea 123 rocked!

quote: Originally posted by Beck: I'll haul a keg anywhere on skis you guys want it to go and it won't have to be a pony, either You da man.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Be prepared to share the keg with the 40 random Canadian skiiers you will find there in anytime there is snow. One of the nearby "secret" huts would be a better choice but I cant tell you where they are or I will be killed by those determined to avoid the same type of crowding. Dont you guys have ANY huts of your own, other than Muir Hut? Dru is right about the hut's popularity -- during the winter -- but after the middle of march the interest in backcountry skiing seems to wane just as the prime season is just getting under way. In May, we would just as likely have it to ourselves. At least one of the "secret" huts is even easier to get to than Cerise Creek (Flavelle Hut), but Cerise is the nicest one I've been to and the it has an incredible variety of terrain from completely hairball death runs to easy touring. Aside from a party, some winter exploration would be in order. The Coast Range has very accessible backcountry skiing that is ten times as good as what we have in the Cascades. If interested, contact me after the first of the year.

quote: Originally posted by klenke: You might also want to purchase a Washington State Gazetteer mapbook since it will give you a good overall impression and reference for the general area The USGS North Cascades map is pretty good for this purpose, although it gives elevations in meters.

quote: Originally posted by scot'teryx: Was there a midnight climb? Sorry we missed you, Scott.

Sorry - can't get the code to work.

Here's a photo of the area. The hut is just to the right of the moraine prominent in the lower center of the photograph. [ 10-21-2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: mattp ]

That'd be good, but a kegger at the Keith Flavelle Memorial hut would be even flabber. Its a bit of a drive from Bend, perhaps, but you can get to the trailhead from Seattle in 5 hrs. (at night) and the Adams trailhead is at least 4. The hut sleeps 20 or more, and is strategically located below dozens of incredible ski runs - both above and below treeline. The ski in is only 3 1/2 miles and 1200 feet elevation gain, so a small alpine buddy -- 7 3/4 gallons -- could easily make the trip.