dan_e Posted October 5, 2001 Share Posted October 5, 2001 I was going to post this under the "sport vs. trad" topic, but it was a bit of the subject. So, has anyone thought that part of climbing has evolved into 'sport climbing' for a specific reason? I just wanted to post my thoughts on this as I've seen climbing progress for over a decade, so here goes: I think many of the ideas of why sport climbing is the way it is are close, but somewhat off the mark. As I am sure many have noticed the grades/difficulty for trad climbing and sport climbing have not progressed equally. Although I don't have exact figures, I am pretty sure there are many more 5.13+ sport routes than 5.13+ trad routes. Has anyone thought that placing gear at the harder grades takes more strength/energy or noticed that many severely over-hanging/cave routes have runners already in place? Of course the do, again it would require more energy/strength to clip those bolts which would lead to a fall and or make it harder to finish the route. It's so simple, and it is not just about making climbing safe. Who would argue that clipping into a bolt is easier than trying to 'correctly' place a nut or even a cam! Considering the multitude of difficulties that go with placing natural pro, it's easy to say which takes more strength/energy, and skill, but I won't get into that in this topic. It's also been argued that the limit to how hard climbing can go may end up being determined by how hard it becomes to clip-in, routes may become so difficult that no one may be able to clip into protection and hold on at the same time. I think there will be a limit to how hard climbs can be, granted it's amazing what some climbers stick to now, still there is a limit and it will eventually be reached, possibly within my life time. One reason why the limit has not been reached yet is because the scale has been modified or stretched if you will. Climbers also seem to forget this, a climb rated 5.10 ten years ago is not the same as climb rated 5.10 at present. There are clear examples of these climbs back east, but the ratings are never updated (you gotta love the sandbaggers!) I would also speculate that the degree of difficulty between the sub-grades a/b/c/d of most 5.10/5.11 routes are not the same as the difference between the sub-grades of 5.13/5.14. Dan E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 5, 2001 Share Posted October 5, 2001 Dane, All I know is that when I am at my limit on a crack I feel a little bit more nervous. Stuffing pro in the crack can take more time than using a draw on the bolt. Sometimes you have to fiddle with pro to set it right. It really sucks when you have tried to put in the wrong piece. Fumble Fumble Fumble some more until you find the right one. Cracks can also be more painful to climb and require some different techniques sometimes. Not always straightforward pull on tiny hold in front of you. Don't forget you have to carry more weight to climb up those cracks too. I think a crack rack is a little heavier than a rack of draws. Often you may be subject to more exposure when you crack climb because they may be multi pitch. Scarier = hold on tighter At least sometimes for me. As Bronco noted in the other thread he likes the idea of training for the mountains. That is the way I see it too. There are not too many bolts on the North Ridge of Stuart last time I was up there... So yes I think the sport has evolved into a new stage for sure. I don't mind it really. If you want to clip bolts as I do sometimes good for you. If not a greater adventure awaits you if you choose to do it. I do think that sport climbing is good training for strength etc. that can be transferred to cracks. Hey Bronco you going to Index tomorrow or what? [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 10-05-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 5, 2001 Share Posted October 5, 2001 Evolution, revolution or De-evolution? Where can I get one of those "Darwin" fish with legs for my car anyways? I wanna piss off the Jesus freaks. note to jesus freaks: don't bother sending me preachy private messages. Use my email: fatboyclimber@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by Dru (edited 10-05-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 5, 2001 Share Posted October 5, 2001 Jesus freaks!? What the (*&*( Don't you hate it when someone takes you too serious. Hehheheh. Did you get a message from Peter Puget Puny Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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