How much protection for 2 person glacier team?

[Adam Watts]

In regards to a 2 person glacier team how much snow protection is required for each member to carry? I remember reading that every member of a glacier team should carry at least 1 piece of pro like a picket or fluke but does that ratio change when there are only 2 people of a team? If each member of a 2 person glacier team has only 1 piece of pro, one can't back up their snow anchor which is always taught. I was thinking that each member of a 2 person team might carry 1 24" inch picket and 1 snow fluke. That way one could arrest the fall and place probably the picket first because it might be easier to place then back it up with a snow fluke for a bomber anchor.

[genepires]

Each person needs to be able to build a anchor and this typically means 2 pieces. What that anchor consists of depends upon the snow conditions. Not every snow condition is good for a fluke but they typically work well in mid spring to mid summer. Other than that, you should have either 2 pickets or be prepared to use a picket and a buried axe for the anchor. If you are carrying 2 tools, then this leaves you one extra for various things.

 

My first piece wouldn't be a vertical picket for two reasons.

1) If the snow is good for vertical picket, you need to hammer it in. If if goes in by hand, it is not good. Try to hammer in a picket while laying down, it is hard. Easier to dig a t slot.

2) If the snow is good enough for a vertical picket, then the snow is still frozen and very strong. The bridges are still strong and the chance of anybody going in is very slim.

 

IMO, I would place the first piece as a t slot picket even though it is a bear to do. I want that first piece to hold when I get up so I would choose the strongest option available even if it is hard to do. I connect this picket to the rope with my leg loop prussik in a way as to not lower the victim in any farther than they already are.

 

Get up and add the other piece for a standard serene anchor. You will need to retie into the rope to give you the room to do work but you must stay tied in. My preference is another t slot directly behind the first one by about 4 or 5 feet. This is often my axe if I don't have another picket. Equalize with double runner or cordellete and locker on power point and short prussik to loaded climbing rope.

 

Grab the wraps on the leg loop prussik and pull to release this prussik and load the equalized anchor prussik.

 

Voila! you are free but now the real work starts.

[Adam Watts]

Each person needs to be able to build a anchor and this typically means 2 pieces. What that anchor consists of depends upon the snow conditions. Not every snow condition is good for a fluke but they typically work well in mid spring to mid summer. Other than that, you should have either 2 pickets or be prepared to use a picket and a buried axe for the anchor. If you are carrying 2 tools, then this leaves you one extra for various things.

 

My first piece wouldn't be a vertical picket for two reasons.

1) If the snow is good for vertical picket, you need to hammer it in. If if goes in by hand, it is not good. Try to hammer in a picket while laying down, it is hard. Easier to dig a t slot.

2) If the snow is good enough for a vertical picket, then the snow is still frozen and very strong. The bridges are still strong and the chance of anybody going in is very slim.

 

IMO, I would place the first piece as a t slot picket even though it is a bear to do. I want that first piece to hold when I get up so I would choose the strongest option available even if it is hard to do. I connect this picket to the rope with my leg loop prussik in a way as to not lower the victim in any farther than they already are.

 

Get up and add the other piece for a standard serene anchor. You will need to retie into the rope to give you the room to do work but you must stay tied in. My preference is another t slot directly behind the first one by about 4 or 5 feet. This is often my axe if I don't have another picket. Equalize with double runner or cordellete and locker on power point and short prussik to loaded climbing rope.

 

Grab the wraps on the leg loop prussik and pull to release this prussik and load the equalized anchor prussik.

 

Voila! you are free but now the real work starts.

 

If one uses their ice axe as a second piece of pro it really limits their ability to clear the lip of the crevasse and to use the axe itself to prevent the rope from cutting then into the lip. So does that mean that for a 2 person glacier team that everyone has 2 pickets?

[Dave7]

improvise, you can use your pack, sleeping pad, etc to pad the lip. Or you could carry two pickets.

 

+1 for gene's advice.

[Adam Watts]

improvise, you can use your pack, sleeping pad, etc to pad the lip. Or you could carry two pickets.

 

+1 for gene's advice.

 

Is carrying 2 pickets overkill, or do many climbers do that? What is the typical setup?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Adam Watts

[genepires]

2 pickets per person is not overkill. regular ascenders are overkill.

 

Under no means do you use the axe to clear the snow away from the rope. never. never. never. Write this 10 times on your bedroom wall and never ever forget this.

The rope is loaded with weight namely a person. Loaded lines do not like anything sharp.

I prefer to sit straddling the rope and use my feet to cut away at the snow around the rope. (no crampons of course) Self preservation dictates that this be done safely by having your waist prussik slid to a appropriate place on the rope which is anchored. (not necessarily the loaded line)

your question about typical setup. I would usually carry one picket cause I am lazy. (I use the axe for the second piece) My picket would have a double runner girth hitched to the top hole on the picket. I slide the picket into the side compression straps with the runner not going into the straps. I tie a overhand knot in the end of the runner away from the girth hitch with a locker on the knot. This locker is clipped to a accessible place like a shoulder strap. You have to be able to get the picket without taking the pack off. Unclip the biner and pull upwards on the sling to take the picket out. Voila!

[genepires]

I am not even fond of using the axe as padding for the lip. Anything sharp is undesirable, like the adze. Anything near the lip must be anchored somehow in case the snow breaks free and the padding falls in and onto the victim. This is usually done with a vertically placed ice axe using the leash to connect to the padding. Teams of two are usually doing technical climbing and therefore usually have two axes per person.

I like packs more than foam sleeping pads because the rope slides over packs easier than foam. Ski poles could work. Skiis are bad idea. Anything not sharp and slick and with enough surface area to resist getting pushed into the snow. While it sounds hard, it is really easy to slide something under the loaded rope (about 4 feet from lip) and push it toward the lip as far as possible. Then do the before mentioned sit on pack and use feet to clear out the snow around rope trick. One can usually push the pack farther still after clearing.

Preparing a fresh lip is a very good idea, especially if the rope really cuts into the snow. To really do it, you need a shovel. I sometimes carry a old black diamond shovel blade that attaches to a axe shaft. Kinda works and better than nothing. But given the amount of times that one actually needs to do this stuff, a shovel might not be worth carrying. (unless you expected to build a snow cave)

Edited February 12, 2012 by genepires

[Adam Watts]

Thanks for the responses guys! I think I with carry a standard 24" picket and then buy a 36" picket and cut it in half for a 18" picket. Each person will have 2 piece of pro and it will save on weight.