Boot Question

[lightnfast]

Here's the deal...

 

I have two pairs of boots right now, the Scarpa Liskamm and a very slightly used pair of Scarpa Alphas. I'm trying to determine which boot I really want to keep, and which to get rid of, that's where all you opinionated NW climbers come in, drop some knowledge (or opinion...). The majority of my winter/spring climbing pursuits involve steep snow, and perhaps some ice. I'm looking at developing my ice skills in order to work on harder mountaineering routes. I don't need two pairs of boots (or do I...).

 

The benefits I see for the Alpha's are they are plastic and perhaps warmer, the removable liner can be slept with for overnight trips, pretty light, and the crampon interface with my Sabretooths is magically perfect.

 

The Liskamm's are taller (actually purchased them because they met USFS wildland firefighting specs, and didn't want to spend money on a dumb pair of Nick's or White's) and definitely more stable ankle-wise, I supposed that's the main benefit I see. On the negative side, if I work my ass off all day, and get them nice and wet, they'll freeze overnight and I get to deal with that in the morning (or rest of day).

 

The variable I keep wondering about is that ankle height. Picture front-pointing in Converse All-Stars versus the Liskamms, I afraid that the Alpha's are too oriented towards ice, the cuff height is too low, and might necessitate more physical exertion than necessary on long, steep snow routes where the high cuff height of the Liskamm could offer some support beyond your own muscle's. Does any of this make sense? Some of my concern may stem from climbing Hood's south side last year with the Alpha's, but using a borrowed pair of Grivel Rambo's (vertical front points vs. the horizontal goodness of the Sabretooths). Was that the source of my frustration (front points just levered out each step)? Spray your opinions all over this thread, much appreciated.

[genepires]

maybe you now have a winter and a summer boot. maybe you need 2 pairs. Since you bought the liskamm as a summer work boot, it should be good for summer alpine climbing boot too.

 

I don't own either boots though.

[Coldfinger]

Kinda seems like the logic you are using is not the way to go. If you are really serious about pushing the limits, you might find you need three pairs.

 

If the Alphas fit, KEEP 'em! BTW they are WAY warmer, wouldn't use the Liskamms EVER in big mountain/cold weather, the leather boots are three season boots by design.

 

The Alphas are designed for climbing, so the ankle is just how it should be. You'll find as you become a better ice climber, and especially as you start to tackle bigger and harder alpine routes, that you'll be using the other ten or twelve points a LOT more than the front points. That's why those points are there. Ankle flexibilty really helps you save a TON of energy by staying off your frontpoints (never mind helping you use the sole on 4th and 5th class rock).

 

OR you could sell the alphas and upgrade to the Scarpa Omega, either getting a cheaper pair with a PlusFit liner or a newer model with the Intuition liner (google intuition liner and you'll see they're the sh*t for high altitude/cold climbs). Alphas are on the lowest end of Plastic boots for warmth, they were designed to be more like single boots than the clunky doubles of ten years ago, but ARE NOT Denali worthy.

 

Plastic doubles are also very nice as they work better with Silvretta bindings imho, if you need to ski as part of a climb.

 

That being said..... You can vary the lace tension to provide more or less ankle and foot support. Some boots even have a locking eyelet about midway up. Most folks crank down when it's time to climb and let up otherwise for comfort and warmth. You can also use the keeper strap on the heel lever of a step in crampon to tighten up the ankle support.

 

There's no substitute for (plastic) double boots for multiday winter or big mountain climbing. (Of course you COULD buy a $600 or higher pair of boots from Scarpa or another make, but I'm assuming you don't want to do that yet.)

 

As for the other Scarpas....... KEEP 'em! BTW they are identical to a pair of EMS Aretes I have (actually made by Aku aka Extreme GTX), great boots.

 

If they are good work boots that's enough of a reason, but I doubt they meet ANSI standards for toe protection, they're not really steel toe are they? Here's a big caution: I don't know what kind of nasty stuff you work around but if it gets on your boots and is NOT good for climbing gear.......

 

If you work in an office mixing climbing gear in with work is no prob, in an industrial setting, look out.

 

You might want to find another ( ) pair also, insulated single boots, if you want better climbing performance as the Akus/Scarpas Liskamms are NOT warm enough for serious Alpine or Winter........

 

Dane has a great blog, will help you with boots, poke around. Just depends on how much $$$ you are willing to spend but boots are that important.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Coldfinger

[lightnfast]

Glad there are others out there that think too much about gear. I figured I'd be using the Alpha's during the winter, had looked into the Omega and it'll be a good purchase when the time comes.

 

If the Liskamm's ever get to see action at work, it involves everything being on fire and the use of a hand tool, capice? Main concern there is delaminating soles.

 

Right on, I'll continue using the Alpha's til I can afford something better.

 

Thanks for all your help.

[Coldfinger]

Yeah, you're not getting your bar oil soaked boots anywhere near the absorbent walls of my Bibler tent buster!

[lightnfast]

Hah, I love it, luckily most of the time at work I'm wearing Alpinestars, I honestly only wore the Liskamms when I was posted up at the top of Nahaum canyon earlier this summer when it was on fire. Liskamms for Road Guard duty, what the hell...