matchswain Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I'm finally getting the opportunity to get into ice climbing and I need to build an ice rack. I'd like to start with three screws at first (either BD Express or Grivel 360). For moderate alpine ice in the Cascades, what lengths are best? One 22cm (for anchors) and two 16cm? Or am I way off on this (maybe 16cm is too short)? This would be assuming my partner is also carrying screws. Also may be interested in some used ice tools if you've got any collecting dust. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_rutl Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 16's are a great all-arounder...mix in a 22 for a bomber belay and/or v-threads and you'll be solid...my pref would be the BD's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) For alpine ice: 16 cm is plenty for both points of protection as well as the anchor assuming you take the time to clean off any surface crap. Nothing longer than an 18 unless it is a TR anchor for crevasse climbing then you want as long as you can get as screws will melt out during the day in the sun. For water ice: A selection of 10s, 13s, 16s and 18s should get you up most routes. Start with the longer lengths (16s and 18s) and as your skills improve start picking up the short lengths. Anchors will commonly depend on the quality/availability of ice but at least one 16 and an 18 is great. I have some used Grivel screws for sale... shoot me a PM EDIT: this only applies to stainless steel screws. Ti or anything else that has smaller threads needs more length Edited July 21, 2009 by John Frieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeoman Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I made the mistake of thinking all screws need to be long because of course they are the safest, right? Not exactly. Fortunately I got a variety of lengths but am heavy on the 19 cm length and light on 10-16. With experience I now prefer shorter screws, mainly because they place faster and are lighter. I wish I had more BD 13s and 16s, but live and learn. I would recommend trying as many different screws and lengths as you can before buying a whole rack. Then you can figure out which you like the best before dropping a ton 'o cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbcbd Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 "For moderate alpine ice in the Cascades, what lengths are best?" If getting 3 I'd get 13,16,16. On routes where I'm not really expecting to use screws but would like a safety cushion just in case (and for descents) I take one 10 and one 22 - covers that random thin or thick placement and bomber v-threads even in crap ice. Strength of the screw is highly dependent on the quality of the ice... so excavate. Note on v-threads: this past weekend pull tested a v-thread made with a 16cm in whitish and wet glacier ice and from my recollection is only blew past 2000lbs. 21cm screw v-thread in better quality blue ice survived past 4000lbs - the 1" webbing blew out first at the water knot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Barter Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Not sure this will help but might be worth a listen. Take what you need and leave the rest, be like a yankee and only take the very best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukic Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I've had several people recommend the Grivel Helix ice screws and I've loved them as well. They're hard to get a hold of, but Jim Nelson still gets them at Pro Mountain Sports in the U-District in Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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