Black Diamond Venom for Waterfall Ice?

[kbone]

Are the BD Venom tools any good on waterfall ice?

[Robert Howell]

Not really. It's a great semi-technical tool, but should be holstered when things get vertical, especially on water ice. You are going to want something with more clearance and a thinner pick. The Viper would be a great choice from BD and if you can afford them, the Cobra's are incredible.

 

Other choices:

-Petzl Aztar or Quark

-Grivel Matrix Tech and etc...

[kbone]

So, are clearance and pick width the key factors in choosing a tool for vertical water ice? I would imagine that head weight comes into the equation as well.

[Ron Mexico]

They're baller tools. Excellent on alpine ice. A true bad ass would use them on water ice.

[Robert Howell]

Clearance is an important factor. High clearance makes the tool more versatile in the long run, as it easier to place over mushrooms or overhangs. Pick width is important as a thinner pick will penetrate easier and displace less ice-meaning the pick will slice or cut into the ice versus shattering it. If you have to keep setting, then resetting your pick you will fatigue very quickly. While taking a whipper on an ice lead makes you super hard and earns you a nickname at your local crag, it is not the best way to further your ability.

 

That being said...

 

Head weight is absolutely a factor. The tools I mentioned, however, come with appropriately weighted picks for proportionality and 'general' ease of penetration. Generally speaking though, you may want to try out your buddies tools before you buy them to decide what overall package you are looking for. I.E. Leash vs. Umbilical system. Heavier tool vs lighter tool.

 

Good luck.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Robert Howell

[northvanclimber]

you may want to try out your buddies tools before you buy them to decide what overall package you are looking for. I.E. Leash vs. Umbilical system. Heavier tool vs lighter tool.

 

having swung a bunch of different tools from several friends, i'd also recommend test driving a couple tools before plunking out a lot of money. at a minimum, grab ahold of them at your local gear store and see how they feel. i personally find the bd tools a little too heavy for my liking, and instead prefer petzl tools. my buddy's the exact opposite.

 

and yeah, for more vertical ice, try a tool with more clearance than a venom. that being said, lots of hard ice was climbed before these new-fangled tools were ever made...

[studklimer]

The venoms were designed more for use as an alpine tool, like you'd use that, then a "real" tool, for alpine routes. its a lot like grivels air tech evo. you could use it for waterfall ice, but you'd be better off with a "real" tool, like a viper, cobra, or something along those lines. they have more clearance, a different pick design, and will offer, for the most part, more security on water ice than would the venom. just my two cents, hope it helps.

[Hendershot]

I thought the Venoms have interchangable picks. Couldn't you just throw on a Laser or Alaska pick?

 

BTW Alaska picks are on clearance at Seattle REI for $12.

[Hugh Conway]

I thought the Venoms have interchangable picks. Couldn't you just throw on a Laser or Alaska pick?

 

Venoms have interchangeable picks - but they are not compatible with the current BD standard for Ice Tools. You have to use the Venom specific picks; only a classic and a recurve are available.

[studklimer]

I might also add that the recurve for the venom is not like that on normal tools. it has a much less pronounced curved to it, and it doesn't look like the teeth are as nearly aggressive as a titan or laser pick.