E-rock Posted September 16, 2002 Share Posted September 16, 2002 On friday I ran into an older woman in the Index parking lot. She said her name was Pat Murphy, she's from Auburn, and she owns the property that the Index town walls are on. Apparently her father owned the quarry and she inherited the land. She said that the parking lot was on her land and that the people of Index put it there without her permission. She was a very friendly woman, and said she had no problems with me climbing there, but it bothered her that people could start developing on her land without any permission. She said that now "Parks" (whoever that is) wants to buy the land. Has anyone heard about any of this before? I was under the impression that it was public land. I guess I don't really have much commentary to add, I was baffled by the whole experience. She seemed concerned that climbers were going to start moving boulders at the base of the cliff near the most recent rockfall...!? However she was most upset by what she perceives to be actions commited by the people who live in Index (like the parking lot, and some no-trespassing signs were removed a few years ago). Overall I had a very pleasant conversation with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted September 16, 2002 Share Posted September 16, 2002 Andy the Access Fund guy mentioned in his thread last week that part of the lower wall was still privately owned. Must be her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_noggin Posted September 16, 2002 Share Posted September 16, 2002 Not trying to stir up shit, Erik your the man in the know about Index ,what up climbing on private land without permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 IIRC, in the intro to Sky Valley Rock, it says that the cliffs themselves are all state DNR land? I don't know about the parking lot. I was under the impression that this had all been resolved a few years ago when some crisis was resolved when the access fund determined that it was state land? But according to Greg, someone posted here recently that this was not the case. Can you give me a pointer to the thread you're talking about? I'm being dense and can't seem to find it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 When I participated in the Index Clean up in May, there was a ranger from the Wallace Falls State Park who supplied some tools, materials and hauled off the garbage. He implied that the state owned the property, (recently aquired if I remember correctly) talking about putting up some signs and what not. Maybe I just read too much into his comments, but, that's my impression. But, I bet Andy Fitz knows more than ranger joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEF Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 My understanding comes recently from other sources and is second hand. I have no knowledge about the development history of the parking lot, although that has been there for some time, and my understanding is that it is on private land. This is what else I have been told: Ownership of the Town Walls is a mixed affair, with some owned by the State Parks, some by a private party, and some by Burlington Northern. Lower Wall is privately owned to just west of the Country, perhaps by the woman in question, although I was told the owner resided in Arizona. Documentation issues present challenges in getting title insurance. I understand that State Parks proposes to purchase this portion and has made an offer, but title issues complicates the purchase. The Country Area is all State Parks land. The Gun Club is on Forest Service Land. The Upper Wall is all State Parks Land except for maybe the most western portion. The Inner Wall and the western portion of the Upper Wall may be owned by a third party. A part of the Lower Lump may be owned by Burlington Northern and otherwise by the third party. To know for sure would require a survey. I'm told the Parks Dept is currently only concerned with the Lower Wall Purchase. In any event, long term access would benefit from consolidating ownership to the state. To that end state agencies and the Access Fund deserve our support to get there. We must also be careful to respect the wishes of private property owners, though admittedly, determining what is private is tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Fitz Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 Steve is right on with his information. And Patricia Murphy is the owner of the private portion of the Lower Wall. She doesn't own the parking area, though; that's Burlington Northern land. State Parks was preparing to make a purchase offer to Ms. Murpy earlier this year, but she insisted that the commercial value of all the talus boulders be included in the appraised value of the land. To arrive at such a valuation is apparently costly. With State Parks also needing to deal with BNSF for the parking area and a legitimate RR crossing (i.e. an easement), they decided to let Ms. Murphy cool her heels a bit and work on the other issues first, then come back to her. Meanwhile, the Access Fund is waiting to make a contribution to the acquisition effort. I don't know what "development" Ms. Murphy is talking about, but it's not from State Parks. They've held off on making any improvements until they resolve the private hole in the middle of their holdings. Andy Fitz Washington Access Fund coordinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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