Fatality on Tangerine Trip

[Lambone]

 

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?m=42681&f=0&b=0

 

RIP

[chelle]

Very sad. My fear of jugging is part of what has me thinking about giving up the idea of doing a wall, at least at this point.

[Lambone]

whatevr you do...just stay tied into the rope...this shouldn't have happened.

[texplorer]

Jugging is really safe. I have never had an ascender come off in the hundred or so pitches I have jugged. Not to say it can't happen but it is rare and even then you can back yourself up with a grigri or a simple not ever so often.

 

I was just in the valley and talked to the climbing ranger, Link and others about the accident. It appears he made several errors that led up to the accident. The main thing he did wrong was not tie into the rope at all. I am at times cavalier in my safety but even I don't do that. Some other weird stuff was amiss - I even heard he had a grigri attached to a legloop?

[Ireneo_Funes]

What's the consensus on the best way to back yourself up when jugging? Tying in short (w/ a clove hitch? figure 8?) or using a Grigri?

 

If you're tying in short, is there a rule of thumb for how often you stop and retie?

 

Kind of a basic question, but I haven't done any aiding yet...just curious what you big wall guys think.

[texplorer]

Personnally I usually don't tie-in short. I am always tied in to the end of the rope so I guess I could take a mammoth fall but most of the time even in that scary scenario you'll be ok. I think most people tie in short every 40 ft or so using a clove or an eight on a bight. The grigri doesn't work so well because it makes the rope below the ascenders lighter and thus its more difficult to move the lower ascender up (try it and you'll see what I mean).

 

I guess its all about your comfort level. When I have to clean a tricky traverse or do something funky I definetely tie-in short but on straight up pitches I just jug away. The main thing I worry about when jugging is the rope above me sliding over sharp edges especially on traverses. Backing up won't help you if the rope is cut from above. Good use of slings and maybe alittle duct tape can help this but as the jugger you can't do much more than lower out at critical points slowly.

[Lambone]

I use the Gri-gri back up system. Yeah tex is right that it does make sliding your jugs up harder at first, but once your up a ways it works fine. saves time bbecause you don't have to mess with tieing knots and clipping them in, and you are backed up right there....

 

sometimes you have to stop and pull all the slack through the gri-gri...which can be a pain in the ass.

[willstrickland]

On overhanging or traversing pitches, I'm typically cleaning with a Gri-gri used as a bottom ascender (not to be confused with using 2 jugs and a gri-gri backup). It is a little slower than two jugs, but immensely easier to clean tensioned pieces and for me, faster overall. I will tie in short before a traversing section, or if there is a big ledge below me or complicated manuever or something. Otherwise I usually tie in short twice per pitch, eight on a bight to a locker. I let the accumulation of fear be my guide of when to tie in short.

And, sometimes I will tie in short more often simply to manage the rope better (instead of having a 60ft loop hanging down to snag stuff). You could always use a rope bag on your harness to stuff the rope as you ascend if snagging or trundling is a real problem.

 

Like Tex, I am always tied into the end of the rope with the rare exception of a long lower-out where you don't have enough rope for a duecey, you don't want to kamikaze swing, and you don't have an extra rope to rap. (and I tie in short then anyway). If it's less than vertical and straight up, I'm on two jugs instead of a jug/gri-gri combo and I probably only tie in short once or not at all.

 

So the non-answer to your question...it depends.

[Ireneo_Funes]

Thanks, guys. Sounds like there's at least a couple different ways to do it.

[Lambone]

I let the accumulation of fear be my guide of when to tie in short.

 

this is so true

 

and if your not afraid at all being 500ft off the deck with nothing but air below you and not tied into the rope....then you need more help then we can offer.

[lancegranite]

A trick to the whole Gri gri back up is to jug with a rope bag, stacking every 20 feet or so. Sounds akward, but on easy climbing, it worked pretty well.

We used this method on Moonlight and led the climb in blocks, so changeovers were pretty seamless.