How Come....???

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cairns:

Throw in the rumor that Alan Kearney did not report many of his FAs.

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McLane managed to include many unreported FAs by asking people to ask people about routes... discovered a few good ones through word of mouth. However in SWBC Alpine Select there are definitely some issues over why KM chose not to include "Opus" on the south face of Viennese and some of the Bill Noble/Kirt Sellers routes on Clarke and Rexford, or Kobus B's routes on Judge Howay...or the Meager obelisk for that matter. in fact the Judge was not included because he didnt have good pictures of it!

[Cpt.Caveman]

Unfortunately if you dont have the picture the route must suck

[Dru]

Yeah it looks horrible!

[Cpt.Caveman]

Mega Chosspile! Chumstick Snag is better

[Cairns]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

Hey Cairns how do you report them? Nowadays a Joe Schmo does not know how to contact authors

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This was a big mystery to me, too. The answer came indirectly. Something was clearly wrong about the North Face route on N Early Winter Spire. What to do? What to do? In hindsight I think it was my tremendous abilities at mental breakthrough but it could equally well have been someone saying, "Why not give the FA a call?" That was the answer! The telephone book! Greg Markov answered the phone and cleared the matter up. Guidebook authors, to be sure, will often call you. Please direct them to the nearest randomly chosen cc'er.

Cairns

[Cpt.Caveman]

Hey tell Fred I climbed some mountain.

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

Hey tell Fred I climbed some mountain.

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Lichtenberg or what??

[Cpt.Caveman]

Nah the Tooth

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

Nah the Tooth

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Wow! I never knew you did the FA of the Tooth!

[Cpt.Caveman]

Yeah man all them claims of 14000 + climbers I did it before them all

[Dru]

You read through "Selected Cascades" and there are few (if any) routes by Alan Kearney/Brian Burdo/Pete Doorish. You read Burdo's Wash Pass selected guide and there are few routes by Kearney or Nelson (but have they put up many routes there? I dont know that). you read Kearney's recommended Cascades list in that old Climbing mag and there are no Nelson/Burdo/Doorish routes.

What up with that? Old rivalries or some innocuous explanation?

[Cpt.Caveman]

I dont believe there is any rivalry. Jim and Kearney spoke briefly and in a friendly manner. Burdo is a maniac and had done ascents with Doorish. I dont think there is any explanation really to be had. I saw Doorish this summer but never spoke to him.

[forrest_m]

<2nd hand hearsay>From what I understand, Jim asked Brian for information on some of his routes, and Brian requested that Jim not include them in his books, presumably because he figured it would decrease sales of his own guidebooks. No hostility, just a favor.

On the other hand, the Clean Break route is now such a well known classic (it's in the new Beckey guide anyway) that I believe Jim and Peter are planning to include it in the upcoming revised edition of Vol. 1.</2nd hand hearsay>

[Cpt.Caveman]

I can see that but I dont think it is a big deal either way.. I mean nobody owns the rock or mountains the way I see it.

[Cairns]

Throw in the rumor that Alan Kearney did not report many of his FAs.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Hey Drul how come the BC Select has so many of your routes and not mine

[Cpt.Caveman]

Hey Cairns how do you report them? Nowadays a Joe Schmo does not know how to contact authors

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by haireball:

actually, the answer to the original question is dirt simple and requires no underground assumption of enmity: if a guy is so busy doing new routes that he never gets time to repeat anybody elses routes, howinhell can he recommend anybody elses routes? I mean, in good conscience, he can only recommend routes he's actually done, right??

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Ummm I assume that a book calling itself "Selected" or "Recommended" should vaguely try to be objective and report on the best routes there are out of all the routes that exist, not the best routes done by one particular person. Hmmm: 50 Classics - kind of a Roper-Steck bias (Royal Arches?? in the top 50 climbs in North America???) but still pretty good overall. 50 Favorites - hard routes in general but pretty balanced selection. Alpine Select - again pretty balanced except as noted above.

[W]

Really I think the only climb in "Selected Climbs 1" which might reflect author bias is the Eve Dearborn, and I only say that because the route has apparently not been repeated- primarily I'm sure because it so rarely forms. That said, when formed, the route probably has every reason to be recommended.

But the remark about 50 Classics is noted- Hummingbird Ridge has not been repeated by the original way, and has killed many people, including the great climbers Cheesmond and Freer.There are few climbers who aspire to climb corniced ridges, and that route has one of the most bad ass off all time. But the FA was done by-you guessed it- Steck! I've always thought that 50 Classics occasionally strayed into the realm where the FA was a "classic" story, even if the route was not. That can only explain the inclusion of routes like the Wishbone Arete and the rubble strewn couloirs of Mt. Alberta.

50 Favorites is objective in a relative way due to the variety of climbing personalities selected and therefore reflects 50 different biases. And surprisingly, while many of the climbs are very hard and a few are unrepeated, few if any of the climbers chose the hardest climb they've ever done.

It is odd indeed that some of Kearney's better efforts- the DNB of Bear Mtn. (the lower buttress) and Lady Godiva on Prusik to name two- weren't selected; and while Doorish did some amazing climbs, there realistically aren't many people out there who would want to or could repeat them- there's a reason the N. Norwegian and the Diamond haven't seen second ascents (i think)- they're heinous.

Finally I would say that Burdo seemed to be trying to create a book that offered an alternative to Selected Climbs so he could sell it and not compete. But, not sure how anyone can call Liberty Crack a pile and actually mean it.

[Cpt.Caveman]

If you dont like it dont buy it.

[Dru]

I wondered why the SE buttress of Cathedral wasnt in any of those Wash select books. That is a Doorish route but not super hard just super classic ( I think from looking at it and from hearing the spray ofthose that have done it).

[Cpt.Caveman]

I guess you cannot put every classic in every book.. But I bet that one is good.

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

I guess you cannot put every classic in every book.. But I bet that one is good.

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Hmmm Luna Peak (reputed choss pile) is in and SE buttress of Cathedral isnt????

[Cpt.Caveman]

Well why is it not in your McLane book. Ever thing the info is not really available to the authors.

[W]

well that's exactly the point- at some point the author has to decide on a compact list of recommendable climbs; so naturally there will be at least a little bias, it was his or her choice to write the book in the first place. Otherwise you end up with another Beckey Guide.

In every "selected" guide book there will be some dissension. For further analysis, consult the Dougherty Book and go see how "classic" some of those really are!