Jason_Martin
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Posts posted by Jason_Martin
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Ok, is it ' Par For The Course ' - when taking a Mountaineering/Climbing course to be going nuts?
I never dreamed there would be so much technical information, having to be done in an exact way, under some time pressure..and - just when you think you may have one little itty-bitty-thing mastered - you get introduced to 8 more things which are added on top (and have to be intergrated with) of what you just learned !!!
Good Gosh ! I cannot imagine having someone's life in my hands feeling like I'm feeling now....
Whew...Thanks for letting me vent...
Is this normal - or am I a 'Special-Ed Climber Wanna Be' ?
Totally normal.
Think about it like you're learning a language. As you learn more words it becomes easier to make sentences. And it becomes easier to learn more words. It's the same with climbing instruction. As you start to retain things, the next step will be easier to comprehend.
Jason
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I asked my vet about this, since our now-deceased dog used to love getting out on the glaciers. The vet checked with a doggie ophthalmologist who said that dogs don't get snowblindness the way people do. If they did, wolves, coyotes, etc would have a tough time.
Those animals spend all of their time below treeline. In addition to this they're outdoor animals. They never spend any time inside at all. My suspician is that some breeds do okay, while others do not. It appears that your dogs never had a problem, but that doesn't mean that no dog will have a problem.
The incidents I refferred to in my initial post were definately snowblindness. The dogs were whining and placing their heads on the ground while putting their paws over their eyes. They wouldn't move in either case. And in both cases the owner had to drag them down the mountain on a piece of plastic or a tarp.
I have to wonder about the idea that your dogs loved to get out on the glacier. I suspect your dogs just loved to get outside, but you loved to be outside on a glacier so that's where they got to go...
Jason
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I don't know if we have any vets who read this board...but I am personally aware of at least two incidents where large dogs went completely snowblind and had to be carried out. Both incidents took place on Mount Baker within a week or so of each other.
I know that some dogs are bred for the snow -- think sled dogs -- but my gut instinct is that if we have to wear sunglasses in order to avoid serious eye damage, then what type of damage does the average dog recieve in a bright snowy environment? Especially a dog that is used to the dark cloudy days of the northwest?
I've got to think that dragging dogs up above treeline in a bright and steep environment isn't very humane...
Jason
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The Red Rock Rendezvous is from March 23rd through March 25th. If you're not interested in the instructional elements of the climber's festival, then you should still sign up for the parties and slide shows at night. It's pretty fun.
http://www.mountaingear.com/rr07/index.aspx
The hot springs on the Nevada side of the river are closed due to construction. The hot springs on the Arizona side aren't too hard to find. Cross the dam. Drive to the first trailhead on the righthand side of the road (10 to 15 min from dam). Hike the trail for about four miles. Once you reach the river look for a stream coming out of the rocks. Follow the stream back uphill into a little slot canyon. You'll note that the water in the creek will get warmer and warmer. Eventually you'll find the hot springs with the inevitable old fat naked guy who seems to live at every hot spring in america.
Jason
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I'm not concerned with being labeled "defensive" since that's usually the point of having an axe in the first place.
The point of having an ice axe is to use it for climbing. Self-arrest is only one of a number of uses for an ice axe. I do believe that you can do more with an axe quickly out of the piolet cane position than from the self-arrest position. Indeed, in some northwest climbing subcultures assumptions of inexperience are made about those who hold their axe in the self-arrest position. Not taking stereotypes into account, I still think that piolet cane is a better position in most circumstances.
Unfortunately it takes a lot of practice to develop the muscle memory to automatically self-arrest from piolet cane. This is the main reason that people don't really want to switch...and it's a valid reason. If you screw up because you didn't spend enough time practicing your new technique it could be bad news for you.
Jason
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It has been my experience that it is safer to clip just one rope into an ice screw. It lowers the impact force and you have a greater chance of the screw holding.
Depends on what kind of ropes you're using. If you're using twin ropes and you only clip one in, you're going to go for a very long ride before the rope stretch catches you.
That's the fattest I've ever seen Strobach. The Right Stuff has never been more than a smear on my three trips back there.
Are there still people saying there's no ice in Washington?
Jason
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You sure it wasn't a falling climber that broke it and sheared it sideways?
The picture isn's at the best angle. It is really weird looking. I doubt very much that a falling climber could make a hex warp as radically as this thing was warped.
Jason
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Why do you suspect an earthquake? Why not just a simple shift in the rock formation casue by typical and expected weathering and erosion freeze/thaw cycles? Cool pic none the less.
Certainly could be...but a few years ago we had a good size earthquake here.
Jason
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The other day I was working on an old route in Red Rock. Some buddies and I are trying to replace all the old bolts to make this route a safe and fun climb. While we were up there, we found this:
I should have got a better picture, but essentially it appears that an earthquake actually crushed the old Hex and sheered it sideways. Kinda' cool.
Anybody else see any old gear that has been dmaged by earthquakes?
Jason
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An AMGA course is an excellent step toward being considered a "professional" by those you teach and by those who you might teach.
As far as liability, you will need an airtight waiver. This will help to protect you. An AMGA course will help to protect you as well because if something were to go to court and the question arose about what the industry standard was, you'd be on the same page. Indeed, the liklihood of needing to go to court will go down as you obtain more training and have less loopholes in your own skillset.
As far as the waiver is concerned, you should look at a number of guide service waivers. Most companies have them on the net for their clients. Make one up of your own and then have a lawyer go over it...
Good luck!
Jason
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Thanks. Johnny Vegas looks very fun. Any suggestions for the descent. I hear the gully kinda sucks but in order to avoid the rap/downclimb/rap mess, you have to use the anchors short of the top - true?
So far, two friends "somewhat" interested but not holding my breath - the slackers!
At least one third of all individuals who rappel Johnny Vegas get their ropes stuck. The gully is actually pretty cruiser.
Jason
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I know a guy who did Epinepherine, Lev 29, AND Cloud Tower in a single day...which was also his 1st day at Red Rocks. Now that's fast.
ivo and renon?
nice trip report! it's nice to read about some great adventures.
That was Renon.
The Resolution Arete doesn't have great rock...as Mike said, it is an adventure climb. I think the dynamic of our group is what made it so fun.
My favorite route in RR is currently Birdhunter Buttress. But don't go there if you're not used to RR rock or if you're worried about old bolts. Currently the route has a sold R rating due to bolt quality. But we're hoping to get some new bolts on it in the near future...
Jason
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No doubt the big pack was a huge mistake...but when all was said and done the Resolution Arete was one of the most fun climbs I've done in RR. Mostly because of the company! Good times!
Jason
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Seriously, Jason: down boy. You won't win any points with anybody by calling those who don't understand your obsession with climbing a couch potato or right wing freak.
As I said on the last page: many people do not understand why someone would take the risk involved in such a silly game as mountain climbing. And this includes a lot of perfectly cool people, including atheletes, liberals, or whoever else it is that you respect.
You continue to suggest that "we are better than everybody else." You'll build more common ground if you look at how what we do is really not so unique after all. For example, some of those right wingers or couch potatos you so abhor enjoy activities such as boating or hunting, hobbies that are perceived as more "mainstream" but which generate significant searches and rescues and lead to occasional accidents or deaths.
Intellectually, I know this...
I know that we're not better than anyone else. I just get pissy when we're being knocked. I feel like some of these talk shows and forums are trying to corner us. And it pisses me off to no end that bad things are being said about these guys on Mount Hood. And as we all know -- especially around here -- it's easier to call names than to defend.
You're totally right Matt, there is no way that we're going to win any battles with anger or emotion. Debate and defense is about logical and well defined arguements like those you suggest. I'll keep my pissyness myself...
Jason
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Post deleted by Jason_Martin
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As has been stated above, the value in Red Rock is in the long multi-pitch trad lines. Yes there are herds of people on some of the moderate classics and there are herds at the easier sport walls...but there are hundreds of climbs of both types where you will be the only one on the route.
I find Red Rock's greatest value in long relatively unexplored traditional climbs. These have an alpine feel to them as they require a bit of an approach, may have some weather issues, and require commitment.
There is low elevation limestone all around Las Vegas. I don't think it's that great. Some of it has graffiti and glass beneath it. A lot of it is a short approach from the road so kids will party there and break bottles. The Charleston limestone is better, but it is way too cold up there to screw around with anything but ice this time of year up there.
I've heard this "over-rated" comment before. It seems to me that those who say this just don't try very hard to see what's really back there...
Jason
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If a call from PMR goes out for experienced climbers to assist in the efforts, then I'll be there with lots of others from this site. Hopefully the insurance and liability BS won't keep them from asking for help when the weather clears if they need it.
Well put Winter.
Sitting here with my pack loaded ready to go.
Someone please, ring the bell.
All you guys who want to go should volunteer when there's not an emergency... Then you can get trained and go next time there's a call. I doubt very much that anybody involved in this rescue has time to go through your climbing resumes and decide who's experienced enough to deal with eighty mile an hour winds, no visibility and extreme avalanche danger.
Sounds like the guys on the mountain have the experience to know what to do. As has been repeatedly stated, they're probably all holed up on the peak in two separate snow caves. Hopefully they have the food and the fuel to hold out. On an attempted one day ascent they may have gone very light on these items...Indeed, it would not suprise me if the guy that was left in the snow cave at the top, was left with the vast majority of these supplies while the others tried to find their way down. I think if most of us were to leave somebody behind who was injured we would be apt to leave that person with all the food and fuel...
Jason
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Didn't mean to put anybody down by saying it had been climbed before. When we do a second edition -- some time from now yet -- we will certainly include the climb. I think everyone appreciates posts on ice climbs no matter where the climbs are.
Jason
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Bill climbed everything back there at one point or another, but he had a tendancy to only give me beta for the Washington Ice book on things that he thought were significant.
Jason
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It's certainly been climbed before. There have been a lot of ascents around the icicle buttress but little beta was available when we were working on the book...
Jason
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Single pitch tends to be bolted on the West Side of Washington:
Tool Shed at Mount Baker Ski Area
Rap Wall at Snoqualmie Pass
Black Ice Crag Drytooling Area Near N. Bend
CYA - Same area as last
Lots of bolted mixed action happening over near Mazama these days too.
To place gear on mixed terrain on the west side, you're going to have to climb mountains.
Jason
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I think the Mountaineers often get a bad rap because of a few bad apples. Often the bad apples aren't doing anything that is really that disturbing technically, but instead are rude to parties outside their circle. I think this has led to more Mountaineers bashing than anything else.
I truly believe that this has been happening less and less over the last few years. Ten years ago it seemed that I encountered rudeness from Mountaineers leaders on a regular basis. Hardly at all these days.
The question is, why were they rude? I do think that sometimes people have been put in leadership positions in climbing clubs before they were ready. As such, they may have felt a little more defensive about their techniques. This may have led to rudeness in the past. Are people still being put in leadership positions before they are ready? Maybe. But maybe not as often as before...
People on this website have been very down on the skills of Mountaineers leaders. I have to wonder what level of skills they expect these leaders to have... Mountaineers leaders are not professional climbing guides...but neither is the guy who brings out his girlfriend for the first time, or the college student who brings out his buddies. Are these individuals proficient enough to take on this responsibility? It's likely that the Mountaineers leader has a more rounded experience than many of those who are doing this.
I have seen some seriously dangerous things going on in the mountains from those who "taught themselves." Things that were not mildly bad, but indeed things that were extremely dangerous in that exact moment. Climbing clubs often provide a nice groundwork for individuals to start from. Teaching techniques and climbing club politics aside, this groundwork -- wherever you get it -- is necessary for a safe introduction into a dangerous sport.
Most Mountaineers club leaders are bringing people up easy peaks. Are they doing it in the most proficient and modern way? Maybe not, but neither are a large portion of those complaining about them. Mountaineers become an easy target because they are a visible climbing club in the Northwest. Some arrogant yahoo on the Beckey Route carrying a big wall rack and caterpilliaring 6 people up the climb on different ropes doesn't get nailed. But the guy on his first multi-pitch climb as a Mountaineers Leader does because of his affiliation...even if the Mountaineers Leader was totally cool and allowed faster parties to pass.
So here's yet another reason people get upset with beginner level climbers whether they are in a club or not...if the party behind you is faster, let them pass! Don't get pissy about it. In the real world, everyone gets passed sooner or later.
When all is said and done, the Mountaineers is a good club that has introduced countless people to the mountains. For the most part these individuals got the groundwork they needed to go out and have a good time. It's hard for me to find fault in that...
Jason
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Regardless of the recent accident, you should use your harness the way it was designed to be used. When you make modifications, like clipping biners through your tie-in point, you create new risks. The manufacturers suggested use of climbing gear is the way the gear should be used.
Old gear is dangerous. I think the point is apt. Had the rope broken because it was old and worn out, nobody would be saying that we shouldn't use ropes. If an old sling broke, nobody would say we shouldn't be using slings. If a old biner broke, nobody would be saying we shouldn't use biners...the point is to pay attention to the life-span of your gear, not to start using things in ways they weren't meant to be used.
Jason
AAI feedback
in Climber's Board
Posted
All AAI guides practice leave no trace techniques. This is very important to us. It is at the very core of what we teach. I suspect that anything this individual heard about a lack of leave no trace ethics was in jest. If anybody broke this set of rules, I doubt they would be brazen enough to brag about it to other guides. And indeed, I would be amazed if other guides didn't knock the individual for pulling something that puts our permit and our very livlihood in jeporady.
If anyone wants to email me or discuss AAI in any way you're welcome to PM me. I'll send you my phone number and we can talk. I will openly and honestly tell you whatever you'd like to know from a senior guide's perspective. I won't B.S. you.
I'm very proud to work for AAI. It's a good company filled with good people who honestly want to educate people on how to be climbers. We want people to learn how to be self-sufficient so that they can go out and do their own thing safely and effectively...
Jason