Jason_Martin
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Posts posted by Jason_Martin
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This unfortunate attack on the parking lot happened a bit earlier than Thursday night. I saw the cars with broken windows on Thursday morning. At that point I counted over twenty cars with broken windows.
As there are a lot of people in the backcountry, there is the possiblity that they were hit as long ago as tuesday night... Like Greg, I noticed that expensive items were left behind. My partner hypothesized that the vandals were looking for wallets that hikers and climbers have left behind...
Jason
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Though you may have seen people use the Reverso for soloing it was not designed for such. You should avoid using climbing gear in ways other than what is generally considered acceptable by the manufacturer. If you wish to solo, buy a device that has been designed for soloing.
Instead of attacking people who are somewhat taken aback by your proposal, you should pay attention to their responses. Ego has probably injured or killed more climbers than anything else.
Jason
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There are a lot of different concepts being discussed here and I think some of them are getting slightly confused; so I'd like to throw in my own two cents...
Rodchester said:Be sure that if you do use two larger dimater ropes in a double system that YOU DO NOT PUT BOTH ROPES THROUGH ONE PIECE OF GEAR.
NOT GOOD. This will produce too much force on the gear and is MUCH more likely to cause something to fail in a true leader fall.This is true... However, there are double rope systems that require both ropes to be clipped to every piece of gear. Different companies promote different double rope systems and it's important for one to understand what type of system a given rope is meant to be used for. Some double rope systems are such that one should not trust a single line to arrest a fall. Ice floss is a great example of a rope system wherein one should clip both ropes to every piece.
That said, even with thicker systems (9 mm for example) you may discover that clipping every piece with opposite ropes creates a tremendous snarl at the belay. This particular method requires the most practice. However, a fall will not load the last piece the same way as if both ropes are clipped through all the pieces.
That said, you may decide to clip both ropes through every piece to avoid a snarl at the belay. This is okay, but you should understand the consequences of a fall. The advantage: Less snarling. The disadvantage: Higher liklihood of problems with a particular piece in the event of a fall. It's a toss up, either way you go you may have problems.
Whatever system you go with, it is very important to make sure that the ropes are different colors so that you can remember specifics like which rope to pull on after a rappel.
Another method discussed here is the method of dragging a rope. Some are advocating that the leader pull the rope and some the follower. In some cases, where there is a high liklihood of a rope becoming stuck, it is a good idea for the leader to pull the rope. Another scenario that is very important to pay attention to is whether or not there is a party beneath you. It can be very frustrating to be behind a party which has a rope hanging down in your way while you're trying to climb. When you have a party beneath you, the polite thing to do is to have the leader drag the rope.
There are many climbs and many scenarios wherein it is perfectly acceptable for the second to drag the rope. If there is a low liklihood of the rope getting stuck beneath you and there are no parties below, then there is no reason not to drag the second rope. Many smooth granite climbs are very unlikely to eat a rap line. Ice climbs are unlikely to eat a rap line... There are a lot of situations where it is fine for the second to drag the rope. It just comes down to what you are comfortable with.
Having a second rope in a pack as a rap line is of course perfectly acceptable. It can also be very nice in that nothing is dangling down anywhere. The diameter of this rope is up to you. What do you feel comfortable with and what kind of rappel are you going to set?
The jammed knot technique is not that popular. That doesn't mean that it isn't effective. On a straight forward rappel route it is perfectly acceptable. However it is very important that the jammed knot is large enough not to get caught in rappel rings. It is also important not to employ this technique directly through slings as more likely than not it will fail.
There are two problems with the jammed knot technique which I have discovered. The first is that it is impossible to adjust the knot over a lip or some other feature as you might be able to do with two ropes tied together. The jammed knot has to be jammed for the system to work. The second problem is that the pull line -- usually very thin cord -- can be very problematic if it gets tangled. My experience is that thin line likes to get tangled a lot more than fatter rope.
For a begining leader on their first trip out to a climb which requires double rope rappels, I would not advocate the jammed knot technique or any of the double rope systems. These require vigilance and should be attempted by people who feel confident in all of the other aspects of their outing first. It is my feeling that beginners should either drag a rope or carry one in their pack... The simplist techniques are essental for an understanding of their more complex counterparts.
That's my two cents. Good luck on your climb!
Jason
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glassgowkiss said:
this is a proposal for people running this web site. to cut a long story short- most of the posts on this web site should be posted in spray...
there is also a differance between completing an established route, doing first free ascent, doing a first winter ascent and climbing a new route.
there should be a space to post FFA,FWA and FA seperatly from everything else. Names, time, difficulty, gear, route description and a photo (if possible). Topic closed, so spray, no bullshit. People who look for information don't have to suffer reading through all the bullshit posted by spraylords. spraylords can do their pissing fights in spray.
I've often thought that a board like this would be good. It would be incredibly helpful to people who use cc.com as a resource for research.
Jason
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Lowell_Skoog said:
This certainly seems possible, but the question is how often people actually placed protection on snow/ice while moving together. (Perhaps I should have titled this thread "running belays" rather than "simulclimbing", since that's what I'm really talking about.)
This is what I meant. I suspect people were using running belays on snow and ice first... Sorry about the confusion in my last post.
Jason
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forrest_m said:
I just re-read Harrer's The White Spider, and he describes protected simulclimbing on ice on the Eiger in 1938. The leader placed "ice pitons" periodically as they moved up the ice (this is what saves them when the avalance hits them on the white spider icefield below the exit cracks), but they didn't use it on rock. Instead, the leader climbed each hard bit to a stance, put in pro and belayed the others to the stance, then continued, kind of halfway between simul-climbing and belayed climbing...
It makes sense to me that simul-climbing started on snow and ice and then evolved to include rock. I have no evidence to support this, but I suspect that there were people simul-climbing steep snow and ice in the Northwest long before the technique evolved enough to be employed on the rock.
Jason
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The glaciers are not very sketch at all... They are similar to those you named that you've already soloed. You'll probably be fine... If you don't plan on climbing, you might consider doing it a bit faster than five days.
Jason
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Some time ago there was a post on climbingwashington.com about rockfall on Gunsight. I just quickly went through that website and couldn't find it. I'm willing to bet if you cruise around there a bit, the beta might turn up.
Jason
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Freeman said:
I can build a simple 3:1 or 9:1, or a compound 6:1 pulley system real easily, but a 5:1?
I can´t seem to open the file and read the report... So no comment on that. However, I thought it might be of interest for you to know that the AMGA teaches the 5:1 raise in their rock courses. I suspect if you saw it once you´d be able to build it just as easily.
Jason
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Currently a limited number of guide services do have permits for the area... From the Leavenworth rock area to Stuart and the Enchantments. It is unlikely that this will change.
As stated above most people complain about other groups in this region that are not professionally guided groups.
And lastly, most guides do not carry a copy of their permit unless it is required within the permit. In this particular area guides usually have to make a commercial reservation with the Forest Service who then knows who is supposed to be in the area.
Jason
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tread_tramp said:
If you look left at the top of the gully you should spot a cairn at the top of a good scramble route down toward the Ruth-Icy saddle; much safer than the gully.
Left? That doesn't make sense to me. Are you sure you don't mean right? There was a minor peak to the left and left of that there was a cornice which appeared to drop off steeply on the other side.
However, It did look like it was feasable to go down to the right of the steep gully on the other side of some rocks. I suspect it's far less steep to get down there, but you would probably have a little more altitude to gain to attain the Ruth-Icy saddle once down.
I did notice a carin on the way down to the notch on the west side of Ruth -- the notch that you use to attain the gully... Is this what you're talking about?
Anyway, I'd be curious to know about an alternate route down as I will probably be going back there in the future.
Jason
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Just did it the other day.
The keys to this particular traverse appear to revolve around route finding after completing Ruth. So here is a quick idea of where to go.
Climb Ruth then drop down to the obvious notch. After going through the notch aim for a gully to the right of a rocky satellite peak of Ruth. Drop down an steep gully and then traverse to the Ruth-Icy saddle. From the saddle aim for the right side of the right summit of Icy Peak. Go around to the back side (southwest side) of Icy and climb the first third class snow/rock gully on the left. This will bring you to the summit.
I was up there on Thursday and based on the summit register it appears that we were the first party to summit since last fall...
Good luck.
Jason
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Wallstein said:
Sounds to me like a butterfly. Except coiling from one end to another. This is how i do it and most of the people I climb with. I have never heard it referred to as the FRENCH coil. Fuck the French. They're lame.
Their is a way to do this coil that is probably 10 times faster than what was just explained. Coil the rope over the back of your neck, keep each hand holding onto the the end of the loop it just created. Its kinda hard to explain but does the exact same thing and not nearly as pumpy and usually creates a much neater coil.
A lot of climbers refer to this as the French Coil. Before ripping on the French, don't forget that alpinism was born in France and some of the best climbing in the world is there as well as many of the best climbers.
I sometimes use the over the neck method for both French and double butterfly style coiling. Usually I'll use over the neck when I am pumped out after a climb. Some people with small hands have to use this style because a large MM or sixty meter rope is just too much for them to hold.
Jason
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I use it pretty regularly... However, I usually still flake the rope because periodically there can be a tangle here or there. Flaking goes much faster though.
The double-rope butterfly has the advantage that it coils a lot faster, so when I'm in a hurry I use this.
Oh and by the way. You should look at the copyright conversation thread.
Jason
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If you write it you own it. If somebody else uses something you've written in a book or magazine article without your consent, you can sue them. Permission must be acquired from a writer before anything they have written can be legally reproduced.
If a photo is taken from this website and submitted for publication by someone other than the photographer the person who stole it could be sued as well...
You may however, quote something from a site as long as the source is noted.
For more information on this, log onto:
Jason
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Alpinfox,
I have to agree with Retro on this... Beginners should start with passive pro and there is a very important reason that they should do this, but I'll get to that in a minute.
First, you're quote from Freedom of the Hills is a quote that makes an assumption. The assumption is that the climber has knowledge of both passive and active pro. For a climber with a solid background in both types of protection, cams tend to be easier to place. For a beginner, it is often hard for them to see whether or not their placement is correct. Indeed, I've taught beginning lead courses many many times and perhaps eighty percent of the cam placements are poorly placed; whereas maybe twenty percent of the passive pro is poorly placed.
The problem with your Freedom of the Hills quote is that "easier to place" is relative. I don't believe "easier" applies to a beginner. An advanced climber sketched out on lead should be able to fire in a cam correctly without even thinking about it. This is not how a beginner will employ their cams.
Now for the main reason that a beginner should start with passive pro. If a beginner starts with cams he or she will begin to rely on them. Because cams have all kinds of moving parts they appear to be safer than stoppers. A person who does not start with passive pro tends to learn cams and then get stuck on them. The result is that you will see somebody carrying ninety some odd cams on a one pitch climb because they don't know how to use anything else effectively.
Perhaps the wisest rack for the beginning leader would include a set of stoppers (or the eqivalent), a few tricams, some hexes, and only one or two cams. A rack like this should be employed for at least a year before more cams are added... And even then they should be added sparingly. The time tested result of this plan tends to be a climber who relys on passive pro when they can and uses cams when they absolutely need a piece which is "easier to place."
One means by which many people choose to practice leading is referred to as "mock leading." In this particular scenario the leader is toproped while pulling a rope up behind him. He places pro as if he is on lead and clips it to the rope he is trailing. If you don't have two ropes, you can simply toprope with one end and tie into the other end like it's the sharp end...
Hopefully, this info will help you out...
Jason
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Thinker,
I'm not arguing that there have been many articles about elite climbers soloing alone. I just don't think Jim Bob Joe who sees this type of material is going to suddenly decide that he's going to solo Mt. Rainier...
I don't mean to pick on you... I'm mostly annoyed with those who have recently been so judgemental about soloists. When this guy got hurt in Canyonlands I guarantee that thousands of so called outdoors people who have been car camping once or twice in their lives were shaking their heads and saying "he shouldn't have went alone." I don't think these recent events are inspiring people to solo, but they are inspiring people to be overly critical of soloists.
Jason
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I really don't think that an article on a Yahoo News webpage is going to be the cause of numerous solo accidents on Mt. Rainier.
Climbing Magazine #221 ran an extensive article on the history of free solo rock climbing in North America. In issue #222, they got hammered by letters from irrate climbers who didn't see the article as valuable.
I guess I just have a hard time with all the people who are overly judgemental about soloists. First, the history of free soloing in America is an important part of overall climbing history. Second, most soloists know exactly what they are getting themselves into whether they are climbing a glacier or an ice climb or a rock, they tend to be experienced people who understand the risks they are taking. Third, as long as the solosit is not damaging another person's experience they have every right to climb in the manner that they wish and should not have to deal with others giving them crap while they are trying to climb...
You might be able to argue that if a soloist fell near another party that this would result in ruining that party's experience. In other words, they would have to help with a rescue... Sure, you could make that arguement, but how many of us have actually had to rescue soloists? I've seen quite a few, and I've been involved in a lot of rescues over the years...but I've never had to rescue a soloist.
I just don't think that articles in Climbing Magazine or articles in Yahoo News are going to result in a major soloist revolution...
Jason
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I'm glad Glen's not climbing anymore. The last thing we need are more people in the mountains who don't know how to take care of their shit.
Jason
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I'll tell you guys something... Mike is a hell of a trooper.
The day after the accident I went in to retrieve Mike's gear from "The Fox." I've climbed the route a number of times and have always disliked the approach. Though it's short by Red Rock standards, most of it is a third and fourth class scramble up slabs and cactus choked gullies. As I approached to get the gear I couldn't help imagining Mike crawling down this thing. I don't think Joe Simpson ever had to wiggle himself over scrub oak and cacti on his epic. Periodically on the approach I saw little patches of grass where it was clear someone had stopped and laid down for awhile. Man o' man, it was seriously hard core for him to crawl out of there.
The hospitals down here suck. Because there is no cap on malpractice suits and malpractice insurance is so high, doctors are leaving the state like crazy. I once found a guy with a compound fracture in his leg. Once we got him to the hospital, they had him lay on the floor in the waiting room among all the other beat-up people for three hours before they even brought him back into the hospital proper. The moral of this story and Mike's is: Don't get hurt in Red Rock, Mt. Charleston, Wheeler Peak, Clark Mountain, Cave Rock, or whereever else you might climb in Nevada.
There are two ironies to this whole craziness. First, at a climbers cleanup on Saturday I was told that only a week before Mike got hurt another climber was doing exactly the same thing (top-rope soloing on the same route) and had almost the exact same epic. The differences being this climber rappelled off the end of his ropes and broke one foot... The other irony to this is that Mike's roommate is a climber who broke both ankles in November... At least he's in a supportive household.
Get well soon. I think everyone here is with you and is thinking about you! It's all about drinking lots of beer and watching lots of movies this spring. You'll be back on your feet before you know it.
Jason
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This is a very controversial subject. Rather than tell you my own opinions, here is a link to an excellent article on the subject written by a world class ski mountianeering guide:
Hope this helps,
Jason
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Tape.
It's sad, but the only reason I say this is because if you wear hand jammies people will make fun of you behind your back.
Jason
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icegirl said:
Didn't some guy fall about 3 years back soloing on the cable out at Banks Lake? Broke himself real bad and crawled to the road (not really that far if you know the area)
I think he was on H202 and from what I understand he was leading rope solo. When he fell, his device did not catch on the rope. The rumor was that his device didn't bite on the icy rope...
Like icegirl said, I understand that he was injured severly. I even recall something about a coma...
Anybody know what happened to that guy? Did he make it? I looked for it in Accidents in North American Mountaineering and didn't see it.
Jason
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That's a double munter.
Jason
2 member rope team on glacier
in Newbies
Posted
I have actually experimented with the knot system on a relatively dry glacier. There was little snow left at the time, but the first butterfly knot -- about a meter from the falling climber -- caught the fall nine out of ten times. Other climbers on the rope team didn't even have to self-arrest.
With a spare prussik and good knowledge of how to use prussiks, it is not that difficult to extract oneself in this situation. The difficulty comes when a climber has to extract his or her partner. With a solid understanding of crevasse rescue this isn't all that hard either... If you know how to put together a good hauling system, the ability to pass a knot within the system isn't that big of a deal. Of course practice makes perfect. If you play with this system a bit, you might find that you like it.
As far as the knots getting caught up on things, the difficulty tends to come more in the actual climbing than in a rescue. The worst situation for knots tends to be when there are a lot of penitentes on the glacier.
I personally don't mind the periodic knot getting caught on the ice. The extra peice of mind that the knots provide are worth it.
Jason