Lowell_Skoog

Yes. When you take this attitude, forums like Usenet newsgroups and cc.com are not just time-wasters. They are tools for personal growth.

I won't spill the beans yet. But since I'm as much a fan of The Lord of the Rings as of the Cascades, I'll suggest a bonus quiz: What is the significance of the names in Tolkien's books? (To be honest, I may have to consult the books again to figure out one of them.) ...just two more months until the 3rd movie comes out...

Thanks Ray. I appreciate your thoughts and your efforts to keep the dialog respectful. Long live cc.com!

and I normally don't fight other people's battles for them, but I suspect that Harry will let these comments from Ray go unchallenged. I can't. Ray, I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about. Harry is an original researcher and has probably done every bit as much original research on the North Cascades as Fred Beckey. He has not simply relied on Beckey's work. Indeed, as I pointed out in my last post, Fred may have used Harry's work without adequately crediting him. I have tremendous respect for both Fred and Harry. If Washington were Japan they both would probably have been declared "national treasures" long ago. Your comments are uninformed.

Harry Majors writes: A couple years ago, as I was beginning my ski mountaineering research, I sent Fred Beckey an email telling him about my project and asking him for leads. He responded that he had "done nothing worth reporting on skis" and suggested that I "try old timers - they might know." I got a good chuckle out of this because I thought to myself, who is more of an old timer than Fred? Later it became clear that Fred was thinking of Wolf Bauer. I've since interviewed Wolf, who is 90 or 91 today. So yes, to Fred, Wolf Bauer is an old timer. Earlier in this thread, Harry described how Wolf placed the first piton in the North Cascades on Mt Goode in 1936. Wolf also founded the Mountaineers climbing course in 1935, which Harry rightly called "the single most influential event in the history of Cascades Mountaineering." Wolf was a mentor to the Ptarmigans while they were still Boy Scouts and was one of the co-founders of the Mountain Rescue Council in 1948. He introduced kayaking to the Northwest and founded the Washington Kayak club. He skied in the first slalom race west of the Mississippi in 1930 and took 5th in the first Silver Skis Race in 1934. Most Northwest climbers probably don't even realize that Wolf is still around, still sharp and still active. He's a bona fide living legend. Harry Majors and Fred Beckey are active historians, still researching and writing, so in a sense Harry is correct that he and Fred are the only living major direct links with the past. Wolf Bauer isn't writing a book (though his friends have urged him to do so) so it falls to others to preserve those links. I'm glad that Fred and Harry have stepped up to the task, and I wish them Godspeed in their efforts. Harry - I understand why you might want to refrain from any more comments about Fred or CAG on cc.com. It's no fun having people mad at you. But I don't think your postings have been disrespectful and I, for one, enjoy your insights. My experience on the Internet, which goes back to the 1980s, before there was a World-Wide Web, has taught me that stirring up a little controversy can be a positive thing, if you embark upon it respectfully. You get a chance to test drive your ideas with an outspoken audience and refine your arguments. I think this can be a valuable process for a researcher and writer. I appreciate your devotion to getting the facts straight and making sure that sources are properly acknowledged. I found your comments on the CAG-2 errata/addenda thread about Fred's preface and its similarities to "Exploring Washington" interesting: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=224218&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1 If Fred relied on that book without properly acknowledging it, that should be corrected. My interest in this was merely academic until I checked the U.W. Library Catalog and found that "Exploring Washington" was written by one Harry M. Majors in 1975, two years before the first edition of CAG-2 appeared. Now I've added the book to my reading list and must apologize for not looking it up sooner.

Harry -- In your excellent post about the Ptarmigans and their missing scrapbook, you mentioned that Ralph Bromaghin had movies from climbs of Mt Baker and Whitehorse. And you note that "Bromaghin was the only Ptarmigan fatality of the Second World War." Indeed, in Harvey Manning's "Ptarmigans and Their Ptrips" (The Mountaineer, 1958, p. 63), Harvey writes: "Ralph Bromaghin, whose tastes ran to music and skis, was killed in World War II. So unobtrusive yet effective was his leadership and well-beloved his personality some Ptarmigans are confident the club would have survived the war had he done so." This is a remarkable statement, and I can't help but wonder how Northwest mountaineering and skiing history might have changed had Bromaghin survived and had the Ptarmigans regrouped after the war. Ralph Bromaghin has been all but forgotten by Northwest climbers, even those fascinated by the Ptarmigans. But he has not been entirely forgotten by skiers. In my ski mountaineering research, I've encountered many references to Ralph Bromaghin. While the hard-core climbers of the Ptarmigans were blazing new trails in the North Cascades, Bromaghin was a pioneer of another sort. He was among the first professional ski instructors at the new resort of Sun Valley, which revolutionized alpine skiing in America just before World War II. When the war broke out, Bromaghin, along with many of America's best skiers and mountaineers, joined the mountain troops just starting to be organized at Fort Lewis near Tacoma. During the winter of 1941-42, after the attack on Pearl Harbor thrust America into the war, the 87th Mountain Infantry Regiment moved into quarters at Paradise on Mt Rainier for several months of training. Imagine the scene. War is raging in Europe and the Pacific. Battle looms for a generation of young American men. Yet for a few months, the one hundred and fifty men of the infant regiment are stationed on the slopes of Mt Rainier, their task to become as proficient at skiing and winter survival techniques as possible. For a hardy group of young skiers and mountaineers, it was a dream come true. The grim realities of war could wait. Lt. Charles Bradley wrote of that period: "Perhaps the best measure of the spirit of a group of men can be found in the music that comes from them." Bradley described the 87th Mountain Infantry as "one of the singingest outfits to ever shoulder an army pack." He continued: "[Ralph] Bromaghin was very much the spark plug. He could feel out harmony better then anyone else I've known and was able to get it across to the rest of us." Bromaghin and Pfc. Charlie McLane composed many of the lyrics, usually to the tune of currently popular songs. Skiing was a favorite subject of their songs. One of the most popular tunes, "The Ballad of Sven and Oola" celebrated the rivalry between skiers and snowshoers over which was the better technique for a mountain soldier. The chorus, to the tune of "I'm a Bold, Bad Man From Colorado," went like this: Here's a link to the complete lyrics of the song on my website: http://www.alpenglow.org/ski-history/notes/period/asa/asa-1943.html#asa-1943-p21 And here's a photo of the 87th Mountain Infantry glee club singing in the Paradise Lodge, from the 10th Mountain Division photo collection at the Denver Public Library. Ralph Bromaghin is in the center playing guitar: The Mt Rainier phase of the mountain troop story soon ended, and the small nucleus of men who trained there were soon joined by thousands more. The 10th Mountain Division grew, moved to Camp Hale, Colorado for more training, and shipped out to Italy in the winter of 1944-45. There they proved themselves in battle, spearheading the drive that broke through the Apennine mountains and racing across the plains to the foothills of the Alps. Of the 12,000 men of the 10th, over 4,000 were wounded and almost 1,000 were killed in action. One of them was a young officer with a taste for music and skis named Ralph Bromaghin. His companions haven't forgotten him. In his classic "Sun Valley Ski Guide," published in 1948, Andy Hennig wrote that Bromaghin's friends named a peak after him in Idaho's Sawtooth Mountains, near Galena summit. Here's a link that shows the peak on the USGS topo map: http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=43.83056&lon=-114.71833 And here's another photo from the Denver Public Library collection, showing Bromaghin on skis during his days training with the mountain troops: Like the rest of the Ptarmigans, Ralph Bromaghin's influence, though it occurred over a very short time, continues to be felt.

That's a good idea. Unfortunately, I can't make it to the pub club tonight. I might be able to come next week. Don't let that stop you from talking about it though, and feel free to post suggestions here. I'd like to get this started and find a way to keep it going. But I don't think I, or any other individual, should "own" it. It should be something the community keeps alive. I'd like to work with an organization like the Mountaineers or AAC, which have published climbing reports for years (but have fallen off in regional reporting lately) to help publish something like this. I'd like to thank the people who have sent me private messages about this topic. There's a lot of interest in making this happen and several people have offered to help. I'll be responding to every private message individually, but not right now. (I'm logged in at work at the moment.)

Necronomicon wrote: Not really. This site is an essential forum for unfiltered discussions. An annual journal would draw upon information originally posted here. But it would have an editor (or editorial team) that would distill and enhance the material to create articles like you find in the published journals. It would produce a record that you could refer to in ten, twenty, or fifty years to find out what happened in the year 20XX, in the words of the participants. cj001f wrote: and ryland_moore wrote: Yeah, that's why I asked about organizations or individuals that might get involved with this. A group like the local AAC chapter or the Mountaineers would have the longevity. The trick would be to combine the stability of a group like that with the creative energy of the larger climbing community--like the people in this forum. Dru wrote: Good points. I myself prefer printed materials, but what little I know about it suggests that the cost and distribution issues can be daunting. That's why I wondered if an on-line journal might be easier to pull off. You're right that the name "Cascade Alpine Journal" would not be a smart choice. I deliberately picked it to be provocative.

Would you be interested in publishing an annual review of Northwest climbing--an annual summary of significant developments in the region? The review could include photos and articles about new routes, access and conservation issues, and stories that capture the trends and spirit of Northwest climbing today. Economically it would be most practical to publish such a review on-line. The idea would be to create an annual record (sort of like the American or Canadian Alpine Journal or the old Mountaineer Annual) that takes a snapshot of climbing in the Northwest each year. If this sounds interesting, how would you be willing to support such a publication? Would you read it? Would you submit articles or photos? Would you help the editor (or editors) collect material? Would you volunteer to be an editor yourself? Ideally, such a publication would become a permanent part of the Northwest mountaineering record. If it were an on-line record, it would be good to partner with an organization or individual that is committed to keeping it available over the long haul. Who should play that role? CascadeClimbers.com? Fred Beckey? The University of Washington? The Mountaineers? The American Alpine Club? Somebody else? This is just the germ of an idea. I haven't thought about half the issues involved. I'd like to hear what you think and would welcome any suggestions.

I'm finally getting around to sorting through my slides from last spring. Here's a crude photo composition of my brother climbing the south ridge of Ruth Mountain on the return from the Ruth-Icy traverse. May help you get in the mood for the upcoming season...

This is very similar to one of the main themes of the Tao Teh Ching You're right. I hadn't thought about it in those terms. Dwight Watson was a very religious man. He was a Christian, not a Taoist. His beliefs and attitudes flowed from that. Mountain trips, photography and filmmaking were his way of celebrating "God's creation." I don't share many of his spiritual beliefs, but I admire him as a man who was true to the ideals of the religion he followed.

The UW library has his still photographs. The Mountaineers have his movies. You're probably aware that the UW has created a web page showcasing his stills: http://content.lib.washington.edu/Watsonweb/ This is a recent development. That page did not exist when I reviewed his materials a couple years ago. The Watson collection is in a number of boxes and folders. It is not the tidy display you might expect, based on the UW's fine web page. Getting back to the topic of this thread--yes, Dwight Watson has become a "hero" for me.

"Say little, serve all, pass on. This is true greatness, to serve unnoticed and work unseen." --Dwight Watson

Harry, Your information about the Ptarmigan scrapbook is very interesting. A couple years ago, when I spoke to Ray Clough, he said that he took most (all?) of the pictures during the 1938 Ptarmigan Traverse, but he didn't know what became of them. He described it as a matter of poor filing, but perhaps they ended up in the scrapbook that you mention. Overall, Ray was fuzzy on the details of their trip, which is understandable, as it was over sixty years earlier. I've been in touch with a few other people close to the Ptarmigans (Ray Clough's sister, Bill Cox's daughter, Will Thompson, Chuck Kirschner) and would be happy to put you in touch with them if it might be helpful. I'm guessing you're already way ahead of me on this though. I'd be happy to help in the search after my ski history work is done. I've long had a fascination with the Ptarmigans, their traverse, and their other climbs. I just did the traverse for my 5th time, and I'd bet money it won't be the last. It's remarkable the influence they had, considering that most of them didn't do any pioneering after WWII. They were college kids when they did most of their climbs.

Over Labor Day weekend, Phil Fortier, Brian Miller, Matt Peters and I walked the Ptarmigan Traverse, retracing the route followed by Tom Miller and his friends in 1953. We wanted to duplicate some of the pictures in Miller's book "The North Cascades" to see how the country had changed in fifty years. I've posted photos and a story about the trip on alpenglow.org: http://alpenglow.org/themes/ptarmigan-1953 The story compares our experiences in 2003 with those of the 1953 party. It also discusses the impact of Tom Miller's book, which is unknown by many climbers today. I write: Here's a photo from the story. More pictures can be found on alpenglow.org. Thanks go to Tom Miller for permission to reproduce photos from his wonderful book.

The picture of Dome Peak was taken from a high shoulder next to peak 7510 ("German Helmet") above White Rock Lakes. The photographer was Dwight Watson. More to the point, though, the picture was taken from the Special Collections website at the U.W. I'm not sure you should do that. See the copyright guideline at: http://content.lib.washington.edu/use-info.html which says: It's fine to link to these materials, but copying them (as you did to upload your attachment) may not be okay.

Be careful on Mixup. I've climbed it twice. The initial pitch above Gunsight notch has fractured, loose rock. A few years ago there was a rappel accident there when the anchor used by previous parties failed. The middle section of the route is enjoyable with clean, solid, easy rock. However, the rock is downsloping with few cracks, so it's hard to protect it. A slip there would be difficult to stop. Fortunately it is quite easy. Finally, the route steepens at the top and the rock gets brittle again. In 1987 my friend Tom Wisemann died there on the descent. He had just rappeled from the summit and was pulling down his rope. The rope dislodged some rocks which threw him off balance (he was not anchored) and he fell the entire length of the face. Be careful on Mixup.

Here's a picture of the Johannesburg fire taken from the summit of Dome Peak on August 31. A group of us walked the Ptarmigan traverse over Labor Day weekend. It was interesting to see how the smoke varied during the day and from day-to-day depending on the winds.

I found a camera just below the summit of Dome Peak on August 31. If you can describe it accurately, send me a private message and it's yours.

I skied and hiked with my dad and brothers when I was a kid. My older brother and his friends introduced me to climbing the summer I graduated from high school. I climbed my first "mountains," Mount Si and Mount St Helens, in 1974. With that experience behind me, my friends thought I was ready to join them traversing the Picket Range. Somehow despite rented equipment, tube tents, and a plastic rope for crossing the glaciers, we survived. Basically we were careful and didn't try to climb anything too difficult. After that I gradually climbed more and more peaks and learned techniques from friends and books. I think I stayed with it because I liked being in the mountains, going new places, and learning new skills. I was lucky to have a group of friends (Gary Brill, Jens Kieler, my brothers and others) who had pretty good judgment and similar tastes. Good partners are hugely important in climbing. Today I keep climbing most of all because I enjoy mountains aesthetically. I also like how climbing keeps you in shape and requires you to stay fit. (Some aesthetic sports, like paragliding, don't require much fitness at all.) I also like how you can climb at so many levels and in so many places--just going for a hike, an easy snow summit, a day at the crags, or a tough alpine climb. I climb much less often than I used to, due to family commitments and the realization that I don't need to get out every weekend anymore. There are other things I want to accomplish. I think I'll always consider myself a climber, even if I just hike and ski in the mountains, like I did as a kid.

My recollection is that while the glacier is wide, there are few safe and easy entries, even in a good year. Late in a dry summer it can be very bad. Once you've climbed to the glacier you're not in a good position to try for either Logan or Black. Unless you've planned a very leisurely trip, switching to one of those objectives would probably make you overdue. And going for the north face of Stormking, if you haven't sussed it out, could be asking for trouble. No, after that long approach, I'd be making sure that I made it home safely to try another day. Sounds like you did just fine, obsydian. Congrats.

I wasn't aware that I was responding to Twight (or Messner, or anybody but Sphinx). My comments about anarchy should be viewed in the context of this thread, not what Twight may have written about tackling a hard pitch.

Readers interested in this subject should read "Beyond Climbing Games" (subtitled "Alpinism As Humanism") by Lito Tejada-Flores in Summit, Fall 1990. Lito wrote the famous essay "Games Climbers Play" in the late 1960s. I won't post the entire article, out of respect for the author's copyright. (I'm sure you could find it in the Mountaineers Library.) Here are some excerpts:

What silliness. Climbing is no more anarchy than baseball is anarchy. Climbers operate in a world full of standards of behavior, both between climbers in relation to non-climbers. These standards aren't laws or rules set in stone, but they're real nonetheless. You can ignore them if you wish, but don't expect the rest of the world (including the climbing world) to accept you if you do. The notion that climbers operate apart from the rest of the world is an empty conceit.

Climbing is not an escape from real life. It's as much a part of real life as any other human activity. In his book "Creativity," Mihaly Cziksentmihalyi describes three factors that must be present for Creativity (with a capital 'C') to occur. (This is creativity in the large, which changes some aspect of the world.) The first is a domain of expertise (like climbing). The second is a creative individual. The third is a "field," a group of people familiar with the domain, who ultimately determine whether a creative contribution is accepted. The Tyrol Declaration seems to be an effort by the climbing field to describe the principles that apply to this domain, to guide its future development. You can rail against it, or you can argue that it's not quite right, but if you want to make a "contribution" to the sport of climbing (like a new route or a new idea) I don't think you can ignore it. Your contribution will be evaluated, in the long run, by principles that are generally upheld by the climbing field.