Matt
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Posts posted by Matt
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Who said what?
3. “In the corporate world, sometimes things aren’t exactly black and white when it comes to accounting procedures.”
4. "[Osama bin Laden is] either alive and well or alive and not too well or not alive.”
5. "How many Palestinians were on those airplanes on September 9th? None.”
6. "First of all, let’s get one thing straight: crack is cheap. I make too much money to ever smoke crack. Let’s get that straight. O.K.?”
a) George W. Bush
b) Dan Quayle
c) Whitney Houston
d) Donald Rumsfeld
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1. How did Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien respond when his spokeswoman called George W. Bush a “moron”?
a) He pulled out a photograph of Bush reading an upside-down book and said, “She may have a point.”
b) He said, “She calls me Cretin. Do you see me getting all upset?”
c) He accepted her resignation and said that Bush is “not a moron at all.”
d) He held up a photograph of Bush looking through binoculars with the lens caps still on and said, “You tell me, does he look like a moron?”
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In response to
Poster: mattp
Subject: Re: What should be allowed in a "route report" discuss
Summary/Introduction to DiatribeOn Friday, I erased several posts from the Colonial/Big Four thread. I did it three times. I did it because the discussion there had deteriorated into a hostile exchange of insults and banter that may belong in "Spray" but certainly doesn't belong in a discussion of a climb. This stimulated an angry response from Captain Caveman and some there was some discussion of what might be a proper way to moderate this board in the "Spray" thread titled "Utter Trash." I thought it a good idea to start a new discussion, directly addressing what might be the proper rules of engagement in the "Route Reports" section, and my conclusion is this: "Route Reports" should be focused on actual outings, or things like conditions or the history of a route, or what kind of gear is needed for a particular climb; if you want to digress into an argument over somebody's character or something unrelated to climbing, and particularly if that digression is going to continue for more than a post or two, take it to another section of the board.
What was I trying to do?
Dru had angered Captain Caveman and Cavey called Dru some kind of pussy and the discussion was no longer about anything related to a route report. There was an exchange of about six or eight posts consisting primarily of trash-talk, so I erased those posts in an effort to take the discussion back to where I thought it had gone astray. I think only two or maybe three of these posts were Cavey's posts, and the abusive rhetoric had actually been traded three ways -- some of the posts I erased were attacking Caveman, I believe that Chocolate or somebody had also gotten into the act, and there was the usual irrelevant quip from Trask. I had thought about erasing Dru's remarks that arguably started the whole thing but I decided that it was not those remarks but Cavey's response that really took the discussion astray. In response to my editing, Cavey got angry and resumed his attack on Dru as well as calling Alex a prick or something because he assumed that Alex had been the one that erased the posts. I then erased about four or five more posts, including Cavey's retorts along with a few responses and a post of my own that suggested the argument be taken to "Spray." Again, I hoped to take the discussion back to a point from which Cavey could defend the person Dru had insulted and then allow the discussion to veer back toward a discussion of Big Four or Colonial. I thought it appropriate to leave a hint of the prior diversion behind as a reminder that I would be supervising the discussion and so that any reader could guess what had taken place. Cavey came back with the flame thrower a third time. I erased one or two posts, and shut it down.
On the question of fairness:
Cavey complained that I was "unfair" and Fern commented that the erasures seemed "capricious." To this I can only say that I tried to be fair and that I was simply trying to cut out the insulting rhetoric and any post that wouldn't make sense without that insulting rhetoric, and leave the rest. As noted already, I erased posts by several people, and some of what I erased included folks calling Caveman names. I erased my own suggestion to Dru that the "valuable" material I had erased could easily be recreated in "Spray" or elsewhere on the board because I figured this should be obvious. I left a complaint about what I had done to the thread because I thought maybe it was significant to leave a reference to the whole debacle even though I wanted to more or less erase the debacle itself. Was I "unfair" or "capricious?" Perhaps. But I can tell you that I tried to do the best that I could to steer the discussion back on track with the least amount of interference I thought appropriate.
In talking about what is proper for a discussion on the board we are also talking about what is proper for a moderator to do and I ask everyone to consider whether they think they could make everybody happy. When Jon asked me if I wanted to be a moderator, my first response was "why should I take that on that headache? After all, without being a moderator I can post anything I want and read whatever I want and I really don't have to take any responsibility for it. I knew that if I tried to actually moderate anything on the board, I would be attacked personally for doing so. I also knew that I would inevitably be criticized for either doing too much or too little, because some people on this board just want information whereas others prefer what they see as a "lively" discussion based in quips and jabs. When I looked at Friday's argument, following not more than two weeks after I had shut down a route reports thread that had strayed off track for three pages, I had to decide whether to simply shut it down, which would prevent any further exchange of information, or just to remove a couple of posts and allow the discussion to continue. In this context, removal seemed to me less obtrusive than shutting it down but the downside was that this might be seen as targeting a specific poster or two. So I braced myself and tried to delete with as even a hand as I could. My point here is that being a moderator is almost a no-win endeavor, but I feel that this board is a significant resource for the NW climbing community and I am proud to contribute to it. I know this sounds a little defensive, and perhaps a tad bit whiny, but I ask everyone to think about whether they could moderate this board, in any real sense of the word "moderate," without subjecting themselves to criticism and attack.
Should I do it again?
I am now contemplating cleaning up another thread, the "chair peak" thread I closed about two weeks ago. Any of you who are concerned about fairness should go back and read it. Maybe the entire thread should be moved to "Spray" but my thinking is that if someone wants to use this board as a resource for information about Chair Peak, they should be able to find some information in a route report without having to wade through a bunch of irrelevant banter and, viewed in this light, the first half of that thread is of value but the second is probably not.
What are the rules?
Look at the "Main Index" page on cc.com. The introduction for the "Route Reports" sections all say "post your reports and ask questions about routes." This does not suggest the discussions cannot be funny or entertaining and there is no rule that says you cannot be irreverent or that you cannot argue with something that is posted there. There is also no rule against providing or seeking some good information.
"Post your reports and ask questions about routes" is all the direction that is given and it really should be all that is needed. Compare it to the "Climber's Board" introduction which says "connect with fellow NW climbers here to ask questions, or post issues that are important to the NW climbing" or the introduction to "Spray" which says "here you'll find topics on just about anything ... be warned this forum is not for the thin skinned." These aren't detailed guidelines, but it should be clear that "Route Reports" are intended to be narrowly focused discussions about routes or climbing conditions, whereas the "Climber's Board" is intended to be broader in scope and that for full-on flame and irrelevant material you go to "Spray." From where I sit, it's simple: "post your reports and ask questions about routes" is a little narrow, perhaps, because this forum includes discussions of the routes themselves, trail and snow conditions, crowds, gear needed, retreat possibilities, rescue operations, historical information, and things that took place on any given outing. From where I sit, it should be obvious that if you want to dive into personal attacks and calling people dickneck and stuff like that, or if you want to steer the discussion into something completely unrelated to climbing for more than a relatively short digression, you simply move over to the "Spray" section.
As to the insulting and disgusting crap, I personally don't think it belongs in Spray either. I mean, c'mon -- how many times do we need to read that somebody needs to take a dump or that they are going to beat you up and go to bed with your mother? But I did not volunteer to moderate the Spray section because I know that many of you find that stuff entertaining. In the route reports section, I think it is reasonable to say "no pointless insults" and "no vulgarity just for vulgarity's sake." Those are two basic standards that guide any civilized discussion anywhere except on the Internet or in junior high school, and I think they are fair standards for one tiny portion of this board.
Comments?
Good work Mattp! Let's keep cascadeclimbers.com about climbing. No spray in trip reports! This website jumped the shark the day there were more active political threads than climbing threads.
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"Life in the world is but a big dream;
I will not spoil it by any labor or care."
So saying, I was drunk all day,
Lying helpless at the porch in front of my door.
When I woke up I looked into the garden court;
A single bird was singing among the flowers.
I asked myself, what season is this?
Restless the oriole chatters in the spring breeze.
Moved by its song I began to sigh
And, as wine was there, I filled my own cup.
Noisily singing I waited for the moon to rise;
When my song was over, all my sense had gone.
---Li Po, "Waking from Drunkeness on a Spring Day"
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Nice Matt. I'm guessing you've climbed Exfoliation Dome more than anyone else? What's your tally? 40 or 50 times? As always, effortlessly cool...
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If we properly medicate, I am sure we can avoid going too psycho.
Too late.
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What kind of car do you drive Fairweather?
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The day that picture was taken was so warm and beautiful. A perfect day in the valley. I remember the biting red ants at the belay and listening to the pair across the valley taking big whippers on the NW Butt of Higher Cathedral Spire. Let's do it again Tim. Let's do it again and again and again.
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While climbing at Index today warm gusts of air kept blowing in from out of nowhere. There is so little snow on Mt. Index it looks like summer.
Go rock climb! Forget the ice... for now.
Seriously, t-shirt weather at Index in January with dry rock-- can't beat it.
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It was so warm at Index today that I actually took off my shirt and let my skin see the sun! Bottom of godzilla was wet but doable. Thin Fingers was completely dry. Jap Gardens was mostly dry with a few wet spots that you could step around.
Get out there! Index
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Yo Erik,
Do you still have that money you owe me? Maybe some gear you want to barter?
Would love to catch up w/ y'all.
ehmmic--- already slacking? hahaha
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I say more power to him! I think it's pretty cool when someone starts their own company and follows their dreams! If he can make money selling climbing gear online then that's really all a climber can ask for. More time to climb for him. No "boss" looking over his shoulder. No commute to the office. Will he succeed and make enough to live off of? Who knows.
It reminds me of the quote, "To dream great dreams is itself an act of daring." Is that Tilman?
Right on Scott!
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Dave,
I want to get out Wednesday. Do you really think anything will be good for climbing tomorrow with all the warm temps we've been having? My guess is it's all a wet mess.
Anyone go up there yesterday?
On the flip side, how's Index? Dry or dripping?
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Safari....
in Spray
In response toPoster: COL._Von_Spanker
Subject: Re: Safari....
I'm on Safari now. The text seems smaller than on IE 5.2
Use the apple button and "+" key to make the text larger.
Safari seems pretty cool...
Definitely faster.
I love my powerbook. like driving a jaguar...
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Greg,
I've also been looking for a good mid-week partner. Let's exchange goals and see if we have some common targets.
Hopefully the snow is getting deeper and the icicles are starting to touch down. I just waxed my skis and sharpened the picks on my ice tools. I'm ready!
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Do you rap on 15 year old bolts?
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dont forget thin fingers, them, breakfast, gorilla my dreams, iron horse, sagascarious, first part of shirley, davis holland dries quick, 1st part of j-gardensm, about 10 routes at the country.
and teh bolderrs
so many good climbs at index.
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The cool quote I heard was something to the effect of:
I won't mess with your rap placed bolts if you don't mess with my lead placed pig! -
I'm thinking Index if it's not pouring rain when I wake up. See you in the parking lot at 9 - 9:30 or so. If necessary we can aid, but Godzilla is almost always dry enough to climb.
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How dry is the lower town wall?
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If you're climbing 5.11 or above it may be worth it to have tight shoes. Otherwise, comfort is more important. A partner almost lost his big toe nail because he was wearing shoes that were too small. It made it really painful for him to do much of anything in climbing shoes for a long time.
Don't be silly. Get some shoes that fit.
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I've got Monday off and desperately need to climb. If it's dry at Index I'd like to jam some crack and use my brand new 3.5 Camalot that I got for Christmas! If it's wet, then maybe aid Town Crier? Godzilla is never wet...
Other ideas are Guye, Chair, the Tooth or skiing some freshies?
Send me a PM.
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Alison,
You could get a 4Runner or Pathfinder and both of these cars have great engines that will go at least 200,000 miles. When compared with a Subaru that is almost guaranteed to die between 150k and 175k, a Toyota can be a better deal. Yes, a 4Runner does not get the mileage that a Subaru does, but if the engine lasts longer, isn't it in fact more environmentally friendly? (As I type these words I wonder if Fairweather has been sneaking into my room at night and brainwashing me). Unfortunately, Subarus loose their reliability above 100,000 miles, and this is probably what you're looking at if you want to spend less than $9k.
For the money you want to spend, You should probably not get a car with 4WD and look for a Toyota Camry, Honda Accord or other such Japanese car that is reliable and gets good mileage (over 30 mpg is good mileage IMHO). Both of these cars came in station wagon versions that might suit your climber lifestyle (can sleep in the back). Though a Camry is not *cool* it will keep going after other cars will die.
You should also look at Saturns. I thought Saturns were a total waste of plastic (is there any metal in them?) until a climbing partner and I went on a road trip in his Saturn. He got over 40 mpg in his Saturn and we were able to drive up to Squamish from Ballard, tool around all weekend and drive back on one tank of gas. Pretty awesome.
Saturns are cheap too.
Another thought: relplace your engine. Rebuilt Subaru engines from Japan are relatively inexpensive. I know a few people with over 260k on their Subarus with 2nd engines.
A Quiz
in Spray
Posted
7. Which headline did not appear in a major daily newspaper?
a) “BUSH PREPARES MAJOR EASING OF INDUSTRY POLLUTION RULES”
b) “BUSH PLAN GIVES MORE DISCRETION TO FOREST MANAGERS ON LOGGING”
c) “EPA PROPOSES TO EASE RULES ON CLEAN AIR”
d) “REPUBLICANS MOUNT CAMPAIGN TO RENAME ALZHEIMER’S ‘REAGAN’S DISEASE’”