Marmot Prince

Great post. I'm looking around and don't see the Chouinard for sale anywhere. Do you have any leads?

There is a paywall...I'm not a doctor and it looks pretty involved to register? Lol nevermind, I manned up and did it. I put down that I'm a gynecologist. Good info on these sites.

There is a paywall...I'm not a doctor and it looks pretty involved to register?

Your post is a little mashed up in the quotes but I got it, thanks. I've updated the OP with a bit more information.

Yes I have dropped the idea of doing the peak in one day to a very very low level. Probably Ingraham flats on the first night and then I'll see how I feel. I'll be acclimizing the night before Ingraham too. Yes, I understand HACE is likely as good as death solo. Everything I understand about HACE suggests it is rare below 20,000' and is preceded by serious AMS symptoms. Also I believe that epic efforts greatly bring on AMS symtoms. Can you comment more on what altitudes you have experienced HACE? By the way I have never climbed any CO 14ers. I have climbed some Sierra ones, they probably have a little more flavor than CO but obviously don't have extensive crevasse navigation. I sleep high on those, including the summit Mt Whitney from sea level, with some mild AMS symptoms. Also, do you think conservatively soloing Casaval Ridge in March under carefully watched conditions could be an appropriate step after winter experience on the Sierra 14ers? Yes, I have pointed this out before in this thread. I'm having trouble finding a headlamp for the pug and also worried about snow blindness for him so I guess he's out.

Yes, I've seen some funny glacier rescue training by some leaders I've climbed with, it was a circus of rusty skills, and this was from the leaders who organized the trip. I definitely make some efforts to practice and refresh technical skills, so I can do it in the dark, exhausted and stressed but I have alot of work to do. If memory serves, the dates of their departure from the TJ cabin/trailhead and the arrival of the poor weather that was forecasted were in such proximity in time that the climbers would still have been low enough on the route to retire safely. The fact that one of them was found (dead) in a snow cave with an injury (shoulder, IIRC) so near the summit would suggest that they either ignored the weather, or thought that they could beat it, or maybe even force their way through it, and they continued upward into a storm which then put them into a position from which they could not retire. Either way, they climbed up into a storm that they knew was coming. Given that they knew the storm was coming, and it arrived earlier than expected (while they were still low enough to retire), it is my opinion that they made an error in judgment by continuing upward into a winter storm while operating under a light and fast tactic. These points, taken individually, may have made for an uncomfortable day. But taken together as a whole, they do not allow for much margin for error. This does NOT AT ALL mean that they were n00bs. They just made a bad call. Ok I think I understand. After reading the 40 pages of threads on the accident I really was too tired to read the speculation, thanks for the good analysis. I'm happy to take both.

Oh comeon, I clearly agree with your statement if you read the rest of my post. You people must actually spend your time reading brief phrases from me, then deliberately ignoring the rest of the posts just to score points. Is this really worth it to you? Look I don't want to contradict you but from what I read, there was no option to "retire". It sounds like one of them was immobilized by injury high on the route, almost on the summit. The others probably spent plenty of their reserve energy and time trying to move him to a shelter. As they saw their injured partner and the weather deteriorate they decided the best hope to was to descend. In 100-140 mph winds and whiteout conditions they lost their way down and probably fell to their deaths. Again, I'm just saying what I read, please free to factually correct me. Ok you're right, I was a little too broad when stating "none', but the stroke of my post meant that alot of people in this thread were assuming the story was about some idiot when three experienced mountaineers died. Wikipedia: James was also a veteran mountaineer with more than 25 years experience climbing mountains including Mount McKinley, the Eiger, and Alpamayo, along with guiding dozens of climbs on Mount Rainier.

You win dude. Look if you have that many accomplishments you have better things to argue with me. I got your point, I really did and will think about it.

Look here's your intel: Bring an ice axe for april and prepare to do Needle peak instead if conditions are bad. If snow conditions are normal, a stove will give you all the water you need. You won't need much anyways, its only 2600' feet. From pics from other people it looks like there will be a spot for a single person tent at least. Definitely check the weather 2-3 days out and go down. Ok happy? I suggest you stop flamebaiting people unless you are a troll. I feel for you but statements like "You guys could be a little more respectful" aren't going to help you and probably cause people here to cry from laughter.

FYI, Although the situation about the Mt Hood deaths was presented as a noob getting owned, none of you guys must have read the 30+ page thread or the SAR reports about the climbers in question. I did. There is no good evidence that indicates any of them were incompetent or unprepared. They were killed by a series of circumstances that can occur to any climber. I suggest you read the thread yourselves, it's pretty useful. That doesn't even make sense, I never said I didn't know those skills, in fact I said I did but that even if I did...nevermind. Anyways I call epic bullshit on your 6 summits and 25 rainier ascents. I was pretty curious about someone with those summits and also all 54 14ers, so I tried to go through your posts and its literally 40 pages of spray about obamacare and is SS a scam. Yeah, I'm sure you're a busy man. Post up some identifiable pics of you on one of the summits and on Rainier, or else I guess you were too busy to bring a camera. I would be pretty happy to go with others, not ruling this out, right now I'm in long range planning. Also the information I learn about Rainier solo is still pretty useful if going in a party or even a guided group. I'm not ruling out any sort of trip, and solo is possible. I go on trips with others about half the time. I also enjoy going alone, it has a different feeling. Both have virtues. You can get alot more contemplative and focused on the climb rather than concerning yourself with others people which I tend to do. Soloing is alot more aesthetically pleasing and your speed will not be limited by people who don't train as hard as you. I have alot of hiking friends but few mountaineering ones where I am and I don't feel comfortable for others peoples safety to bring my hiker friends up big mountains. On the otherhand I have some hardcore mountaineering contacts back in the northwest but their busy working on some technical stuff I'm years away from. From this thread you might get an impression Rainier is the biggest thing out there, but the DC route and even Liberty Ridge are mild compared to stuff like this: It's possible they will come with me but also possible that they view DC as a snowy treadmill and won't be interested. I don't want to climb a big mountain with strangers. Also you should check out the yak peak thread. They burnt that guy because his goal was too easy, while my goal apparently is too hardcore. So what would be an acceptable thread to start here? It's hard to most of these people seriously. What am I proving and to whom? Most of my friends don't understand mountains. They might know everest is tall and hard to climb, but most of them will basically nod their heads appreciatively if I said I climbed Rainier or Mt Si. My hardcore mountaineering contacts wouldn't be impressed by a DC route, it's a snow walk. As for proving something to myself, well, if I solo either 3 things will happen: Conditions are good like for you and I snow walk the cattle trail to the summit, conditions are bad or I get AMS and turn around, or I have some serious accident. None of those seem like they would prove anything. Your question would be more poignant if I never climbed before. Rainier is a good respectable objective but I've keep checking off peaks for a while, some involving some serious danger and exposure. I think I just like to climb.

Actually they are pretty helpful. And your critique about "not heeding advice...demonstrated" has already been answered by me and I really don't care about to point out why your wrong. By the way, to answer your question and others here, it's pretty clear what you think about me, but you don't really see what I see of you, and it's why you are confused. Unlike you, I post here to get information. I just don't feel your critiques because they usually without content and motivated by your egos and false assumptions, which you are not aware of. I think this is revealed in many posts about my so called arrogance and comparing me to others, ie, the guy who "soloed" cassin. It's also revealing that when people are contradicted they quickly start angrily pulling out the credentials instead of walking away. But I'm not here to impress anyone with climbing. When you try to put me down with name calling, etc, I just don't feel it because I don't have an ego, or at least not one I flaunt on internet forums, which is why you are so confused. I only want to climb.

Your a pretty confusing person. Your only comparison to Rainier was colorado despite being a world class mountaineer? Despite being all around the world with the 6 summits and with 25 ascents of Rainier, you only have 2 trip reports at a local Colorado crag and you look like your about 28. Hmmmm... Anyways I have all of your list that I can use soloing except how to prevent AMS. I only know how to be aware of the symptoms and try to do things to reduce it, but I'm not at the zen like level to eliminate AMS after travelling about 9000' in a few days. I know crevasse rescue etc., but somehow I don't think there is anything I can say to satisfy you. Most of the skills are qualitative, ie, there are experts who can manage ropes extremely efficiency or read glacier terrain better than I could ever achieve, the same way I will never climb 5.14+. Well already I'm on page 15 of that massive thread. I'm pretty sad in more than one way that you spoiled the ending. The thread is actually pretty useful, with little spray and alot of tips about snow caves, etc. It's also pretty wierd to see your sig in that thread, could we change that pretty soon?

lolwut? More sanctimony over a pretty serious issue. You know jackall about what happened. Competent climbers die all the time for reasons beyond their control and this situation may or not may have anything to do with soloing the DC. Again, you don't seem to understand that to dissuade someone you have to show there is a gulf between their abilities and goals, not just shrieking and pointing to likely unrelated mistakes in the past.

link to thread and news story/bulletin?

1. Those are skills, not experience. It's conceivable to take classes that cover all of those and not be even close to prepared to Rainier. And by the way I basically have most of those down, and also won't be needing the technical ones will I? 2. Spooky. Thanks for the personal tips about rockfall and your experiences on Rainier. Yup, I know early travel is safer for rockfall and snow bridges, but the specifics on Rainier are invaluable.

Ok fine, sorry. FYI this is yak peak in may 2008, I don't recall the snow levels that year. So, is there water? I think there will be! Yak Peak by Tim Gage, on Flickr

Ok this raises some eyebrows. If you lived in the area you would know the entire peak will pretty much be covered in snow and ice in April.

Because a vocal minority of people on this board love their e-authority a little too much and seem to think their tenure on this forum gives them the right to make assumptions about newcomers, when the opposite is the case.

not even close. MarmotPrince is Rainier to moosejah's rubble pile. edit: by the way, you people are pretty paranoid with those troll thing. You see trolls everywhere. I'm thinking considering the low level of dialogue you offer and your lack of reason for being here, maybe you are projecting a little too much,

I've been to the needle in November, it was a good hike and a great view of yak peak. To be honest, yours is a trivial question if you're asking for travel in summer conditions. On the other hand, it could be impossible to hike up in winter. What time are you going? I would guess camping on the top is possible if weather is good, obviously not if any storm is possible. If winter, what you want is a trip report with recent conditions in the area and a backup plan (needle is good) if it fails. It will be a good trip.

*hands moosejah flamesuit* I better step it up in my thread to take some off you.

Look, How many glaciers did you cross on the 14ers? I've never been there but the hardest mountain by the easiest route is class 4 and with fifty-four of them that says something. Those peaks are rubble piles on a tall plateau. It's really not informative to tell someone they don't have enough experience when 1. You won't describe the experience you need 2. You don't know the person your talking to I'm not going to reconsider my attempted Rainier trip, because I'm not attempting it, ie, I'm before the stage where you can reconsider. I'm considering, ie, I am not attemping anything. You need to understand I'm perfectly willing not to go if people can explain why it is so extremely dangerous in good conditions if I'm willing to accept the crevasse risk, which people can and do. Mentioning the 14ers doesn't really give me much information. I know they are significantly different than Rainier. I'm from the northwest and where i'm from, the glaciers start at 3,000'. I've travelled on a many glaciers, probably a total of 40 hours on them in the last 3 years, although they much more mellow than Rainier. I've also worked on 40 degree snow for days where a fall would not be arrestable. (now waiting for the inevitable spray which quotes one of my sentences about prior experience out of context)

Not really. All mountains I know of adhere to the laws of weather, climate, physics and gravity and that sort of shit. Not really, but if you think you know all mountains because you can climb one I'm not sure why you are wasting your time here.

A little unfair, I'm asking a question why people do alpine starts on a mountain. If you're suggesting its incompetent not to do one, well looking through the answers, it seems like alot of people don't. I've done alpine starts myself and I know plenty of reasons why to do them. The question is: is there something "special" about Rainier that requires alpine ascents. This is a reasonable question to ask. There are plenty of reasons why you might still be on terrain later in the day, and if that "special" something about Rainier happens, you could be in alot of shit. Every mountain can be very different and even if you've been up a few big ones in one range, going to another range has special problems that even experienced climbers might not know. I don't expect you people to read Socrates but I don't think that questions -> ignorance.

Good points. Well it seems theres alot of variety on start times. On the cattle routes I guess I will choose a regular start rather than 2 am start when I'm fit and prepared. An important factor to also consider is how early my new mountain pug can get up.