Bob Loomis

Dear All, I wanted to relate my experiences regarding getting some screws sharpened. I did finally make contact more than a week later (a week or so after my first email and call) with the fellow in Canmore listed in Will Gadd's site. He was reluctant to do the work on a mail order basis, and instead gave me instructions on how to do the work myself. He was very helpful and kind in this regard, and I was grateful. But my own work has not been great, so I wanted to go the professional route. I think the fellow in Canmore can have very good turn around time, so if a climber met with him in person that climber probably could get same day service or same weekend service. So I gave the guy (Jim) in Ephrata, Washington a try--great decision on my part. First, very friendly and knowledgeable. Second, very fast turn around. From when I sent the screws to him via UPS, to the time they were back in my hands it was five days. Third, very cost effective. Jim charged me $3.00 per screw, sales tax, and shipping, which was $4.00. Fourth, work quality--essentially the screws look like when I first bought them--sharp and they go into ice like a knife through hot butter. Fifth, he trusted me. He did not ask for (I offered) payment in advance, COD delivery, etc. He said he would send me the re-sharpened screws with his invoice and trusted that I would pay--which I have. There is only one downside to Jim, and he told me this himself and said to say so (with a chuckle), so I am safe in saying this--he is 82. He has been in the sharpening business most of his life, but he told me that though he has no immediate plans of getting out of the business, he is getting on, so when I told him of this forum, he told me to tell the rest of you that if you want him to do your work, he is happy to do it, but don't wait too long. I think that was his being somewhat "tongue in cheek" as he struck me over the phone as a true craftsman, intellectually active, who likes his work and will be at it yet awhile. We, ice climbers, are fortunate to have this service in our backyard. Good man and perhaps last of a dying breed--a gentleman, a homespun skilled craftsman who takes pride in his individual work, small businessman, unpretentious, etc. Cheers all, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

Hi Spiderman, After Dane's early and much appreciated comment about the fellow in Canmore, I went to Gadd's website, (it is under "Gear") and got the guy's contact information. I contacted him two days ago and as yet have not heard back. It is possible he is an active climber and away on a climb. It could also be that he does this part-time and so is not on top of people contacting his business as much as if he were operating an ongoing concern. So I suppose what I am saying is if you do make contact with him and set up a time to meet in Canmore, etc., it might be wise to really nail it down with the fellow. Cheers, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

Dear Dane, Paul, and Layton, Thanks to all of you for the helpful information. I will probably contact the fellow in Ephrata first since his business is so close to Spokane, and you Paul, say he does good work on your screws. But I will also likely talk to the guy in Canmore just as a backup and for future reference. When screws were cheaper I would just retire them after awhile, but now, as expensive as they are, I am willing to try getting some more life out of mine by re-sharpening from a professional service. Again, my sincere appreciation to all of you with helping me. Cheers, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

Dear Fellow Climbers, I am trying to track down a piece of information I recall hearing several years ago. I checked the back postings on this forum for several years and did not come across it, so perhaps the source was a verbal conversation. I recall being told/informed, etc., that there is a professional service that sharpens ice screws somewhere in the Columbia Basin area, possibly Ephrata, Washington. My recollection is an ice climber went to a local shop that sharpens chain saw chains, the local shop said it would give it a try--that is sharpen ice screws. My understanding is that the result was nothing short of fantastic and that now this local chain saw sharpening service does high quality and affordably priced professional ice screw sharpening on a mail order or drop off basis. Several of my screws are dulling up and my home efforts are not great. I have watched videos from sources such as BD on how to do it right, have tried, but my results are not great. So I am looking around for a good local professional service. Did I hear right--does such a local business exist in the Columbia Basin? If so, could someone provide me with the requisite contact information? I would be very grateful. If anyone has used the service in question, did the business do a good job? Any information is much appreciated. Cheers and safe climbing to all, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

Dear Fellow Climbers, I appreciate all of your comments thus far. Just some quick responses: 1. I can try to take some pictures of my harness and post the pictures if I can manage to pry our family digital camera away from my wife which I never seem to be able to do, and if I can figure out how to post a picture on this site (I am not very electronic technology savy). So no promises, but I will try. 2. I used to use the Trango ice clippers and liked them in many respects, but did lose a couple of screws during the time I used them--once on a rappel--hand drifted up and lifted the screw off the clipper, the other time while wading through deep snow--the snow lifted the screw off the clipper. 3. For the first time in my life I broke a BD Ice Clipper last winter, and it was not a particularly cold day. Here is my supposition as to what happened (I am not a materials engineer, so concede I could be wrong). Most plastics tend to degrade over time due to the oxidation process, and typically that means the plastic will tend to become prone to shattering over time. So in my case it was a BD Ice Clipper I had purchased several years ago. On rappel I "bumped" a rock on the way down--yes, just a bump, and the ice clipper broke--down went my screws. Fortunately they landed in a snow bank and I retreived them at the end of the rappel. I do not think someone should adopt my tech tip just on the remote chance their BD Ice Clipper will shatter in mid-pitch after several years of use. I shared my tech tip because it is a fast, simple, and efficient alternative I recognize this suggestion may not work for others, so if it sounds like a bad idea for you and how you climb, that is okay. One of the things I like about climbing is that, at least to some extent, there is individual self-expression in how we climb. Again, I wish all a great 2008-2009 season. Cheers, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

Dear Fellow Ice Climbers, I want to pass on a small tech tip which I developed earlier this year. I have a friend who is a mechanical engineer who is also an ice climber. When I showed him my innovation, his response was very enthusiastic. He and I both think it of sufficient value, that is is worth passing on. Have any of you ever been "gripped out of your mind" while on lead? I sure have. I have often thought, when I am look at the fall to end all falls, that it would be nice to save some time and energy when it comes to placing screws. So my tech tip is a way to modify your harness so your screws rack efficiently and come off your harness with almost no energy and time--nice at the end of a long pitch when the lactic acid in your arms is building up and you want to get a screw in fast. In many homes people organize their brooms and other items with a handle, using wall mounted "grip clips." The common form is made of spring steel, in which one "snaps" the broom handle in and out of the clip when one is either hanging the broom up after use or pulling it down to use. It so happens that the typical home tool handle (ex., broom handle, etc.) is almost the dimensions of an ice screw. The typical hardware store sells a pack of four of the medium (3/4" to 1 and 1/4"--sorry to my Canadian friends, I purchased these at a US hardware store--maybe the US will catch up to the rest of the world some day and go all metric) spring steel grip clips for a couple of dollars. They are also sold in plastic, but the cold of ice climbing changes the properties of the plastic to make them more brittle--the spring steel's properties do not change in the cold and they stand up to abuse. Simply take your harness with these clips to a cobbler shop and for a couple of dollars they will rivet the clips to your harness. I had mine riveted to the padding portion of my harness, not the actual load bearing webbing portion of my harness. Have the cobble put a washer behind the rivet so it does not pull through the harness when tugged on. Now you are set to go. Clip the screw in, in the space immediately below the hanger where there are no threads. When you need a screw simple pull the screw off the clip (I grab by the handle--kind of like the old western gun fighter quick draw movies). Comes right off and no fine coordination skills required--nice when wearing bulky gloves, and since I pulled the screw off by its handle, in one motion from clip to threading initiation into the ice there is no hand changes or adjustments. Even though the screw comes off the clip easily with one hand movement it is very hard to knock off or out of the clip by accident and/or bouncing and/or hitting, etc. In sum, if you give it a try, you will find this to be a clean and efficient way to rack your screws, allows you to effortlessly pull a screw off your harness is no time, and yet securely positions and holds the screws when climbing. Lastly, it is cheap and adds virtually no weight to your harness. When cleaning the pitch, it is more of a hassle to put the screws on the clip, so when cleaning I just put the screws on a BD Ice Clipper--I have a couple of these on my ice harness as well. This tech tip is for leading--when the clock is ticking and the leader wants to get a screw in as efficiently and quickly as possible. I hope all who read this have a safe and fun ice climbing season for winter 2008-2009, and if this tech tip helps you to achieve your personal goals, then I am pleased. I have never see this technique used by anyone else, but in my experience, it is a very useful innovation. Cheers, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

Dear Fellow Climbers, I found a pair of rock shoes on Saturday 13 September at Minnehaha Rocks. Accurately describe them to me and we can figure out how I can return them to you. Email me at >loomis@rescue.com<. Cheers, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

Hi to John and all others, Most, if not all, of the comments preceding this posting, offered by Chad A, are ones I agree with. I had two motives for making my original posting. One was to make a positive contribution to the discussion. The other was to suggest to John as the initiator or this discussion thread that the data he solicited from others (hang time, etc.) might be influenced by whether the person used a leash or not, and whether the tool had a "pinky rest" or not. But those considerations are actually secondary since in the main the ability to perform a dead hang pull up on an ice tool and/or hang off the tool until failure are not central to performing well on technical ice--for all the reasons and more discussed by others. So just some thoughts on body weight in ice climbing. In a previous post John mentioned that a friend suggested to him losing some weight (some 10 to 15 lbs). But stepping back from that suggestion for just a minute it strikes me that the number may well be arbitrary for you John. It may well be that you are packing that much extra weight and could safely lose it. But it might also be the case that losing the weight will result in your struggling to maintain an unhealthy weight for yourself. From what little I know, the best place to start from is to go to a professional and have your body fat percentage (%) analyzed by such means as calipers, dunk tank, etc. Once the individual knows his/her % with fair confidence, then the individual can set realistic sustainable goals that do not compromise good health. Again from what I have read, for example, elite marathoners (Olympic caliber) carry body fat % of around 5 to 7%. Generally well conditioned elite athletes in other sports will tend to carry something more--9 to 14%. The exta fat can come in handy depending on what one is doing--or trying to do. For example, assume an elite boulderer (V12 and higher). What he/she needs (among other things) is a light frame, strong hands, and massive power in short bursts (mostly). So a body fat % of say 7% would make sense. But suppose one is doing big long alpine routes in Alaska where one has to have the ability to go for days on end in very cold conditions where one cannot hope to carry all the food one will need--one has to supplement off of one's body fat stores. In that situation carrying some extra weight is well worth it--especially if one has to shiver through several days of an unplanned bivouac with almost no food. I understand that one pound of body fat yields about 3500 to 3600 calories. Assume an average day of ice climbing in January--hiking in, hiking out with gear through sometimes deep snow, and say five pitches of technical ice. Add in staying warm by either climbing or belaying/standing around and constantly maintaining a low shivering. One could easily be burning 600 or more calories per hour (likely conservative). In other words on a short winter day one could readily burn a straight pound of fat. I find that I tend to eat and drink less when actually ice climbing. One is cold tends to suppress appetite. The other is the hassle of removing gloves, getting out the food and beverage, etc. Another is the desire to keep moving so I do not get colder than I have to--plus racing the short days. Lastly having to relieve oneself is a hassle (extra clothes, harness). So I tend to eat a good breakfast, go all day, then refuel at night. During the day of ice climbing I eat and drink but not as much as when rock climbing. So for me having a few extra pounds is fine. On one or two occassions I suffered through an unplanned bivouac and then the body fat was some insurance. So in closing I would suggest to John, go get a body fat analysis done by someone who is reputable--many colleges and universities have anatomy & physiology classes and they do these tests for the public for cheap since it is educational for the students. With this knowledge of your unique body, plan for a body fat range which allows for optimal performance without sacraficing health, and that is sustainable. Then consider the postings made by others--ice climbing performance is too complex to reduce to how many dead hang pullups can one do? Technical skills, mental skills, how well one uses the features on the ice, one's feet (crampons), and a host of other components go into the equation. One thing I like about this thread so far are the people and the content. I have not met any of the others, but all seem like good folks. Also the content is constructive and postive. It is my sincere hope that others who read this will receive my post as constructive and positive--I mean nothing other than to do so. Cheers and safe climbing to all others, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

Hi John, You started an interesting thread. I do not have current data, but a couple of years ago I did a little testing at home that relates to your thread. The genesis for my home testing was whether going leashless had advantages in terms of duration of gripping (holding on to the tool) and/or pulling up on the tool. At first blush one might be inclined to say going leashless should result in a shorter duration of holding onto the tool since one is not getting any help from a leash. But I thought about how without a leash one might experience somewhat better blood flow into one's hands and thus perhaps the ability to hold on a bit longer and/or pull up on the tool would be the offsetting feature in the decision. So my home test involved a pull up bar and holding one tool in one hand leashless and the other hand holding the tool with a leash. The tools were BD and I removed the "pinky rest" from both tools (I had added the "pinky rests" as add-ons to the tools). The leash I used was the BD Android. I do not recall the times I recorded from several years ago. But I did find there was a noticeable advantage to using a leash if all one is doing is a dead hang from a given tool. The leash did not make a noticeable difference with respect to doing a pull up on the tool until I was near the end of my endurance--in other words the ability to squeeze out that last pull up. Then I added the "pinky rest" into the equation. The "pinky rest" on the leashed tool contributed very little, which made sense--the leash is the real "assistant" with respect to duration of dead hang and repetitions of pull ups. But on the leashless tool the "pinky rest" did make a difference. It's addition did not fully close the performance gap between the two tool configuations, but the "pinky rest" definitely helped. So my conclusion from my unscientific test was this. If one takes all other criteria out of the picture and only evaluates the decision of whether to go leashless on two things: a) duration of dead hang; and b) number of pull up repetitions performed; then using leashes is preferrable. But as we all know there are many other factors that go into the decision of whether to go leashless or not. I think one factor was the leash choice I used in my test. Some leashes (older generations mostly) really do cut into the wrist pretty quick--quickly offsetting any advantage they might otherwise give. But the BD Android does a pretty good job of distributing the load and is a bit more "ergononic" in its design. If BD asked for my opinion for an improvement I would tell BD to make the leashes side specific--that is one that is truly design for the left hand and one truly designed for the right hand. I have noticed that my right hand is "craddled" more effectively by the BD Android than the left. Another is the "cinch" feature on the BD Android--the left over strap after "cinching" dangles differently from left hand to right hand and thus tends to get in the way (snag on stuff) less often from one hand than to the other. Making the leashes left and right specific would add production expense and cost to the consumer, but would be an improvement. I know I did not directly give you the data you requested (because I did this test several winters ago and have forgotten), but I wanted to make a positive contribution to the discussion. I am 5' 10" and weight 165 lbs. Hope this posting helps the discussion along. Cheers to all, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

Hi Spotly, I hope we are speaking of the same thing. The Iron Fingers Traverse and Roof I am thinking of is on an outcrop up the hill from the main area of Minnehaha, and the name of the outcrop is "White Rock." If that is the route you are thinking of I think I can be of help. Years ago before the route was freed I aided it twice. One time prior to the advent of camming devices, and the other shortly after their introduction in the late 1970s/early 1980s. The first time I used very small wired nuts and one or two copperheads to gain the actual traverse. The actual traverse involved a variety of hexes to get to the roof. At the roof I recall a couple of thin blades (the thin Bugaboo variety) to surmount the roof. The second time it was all the same except I used cams (the original rigid stem Friends) for the traverse. It seemed to me that the range was .5 inches to about 2.5 to 3 inches for the traverse, but my recollection could be faulty since it has been many years. I also recall the traverse proper being pretty straightforward nutting/camming with the majority of the placements very secure (C1 or so in today's rating terms). I remember the actual roof being the crux since the blades did not go in all the way--in retrospect a couple of RURPs would have been smarter. I hope I have been of assistance and I wish you good fortune as you progress in aid climbing. Cheers, Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington