vertical_hiker

well said man, do you all have jobs? How do you post so much during the day? too much to read now, but I jumped to the end, seems the conversation went lame,... I'm not going, nor do I have the time, to respond to much said, but I wanted to use this example (and there are others all over this board) of these judgmental and angry words used, without even knowing us. Just read above,... we are in your (dmuja) own words, and satisfyingly agreed by Pink "condescending, judgmental attitudes, wolves in sheep garb, arrogance, smiles packaged in nice deception, judgmental (did I say that)". Sounds like someone needs to point the finger in the other direction? Just a thought, but I was thinking maybe you ought to practice what you preach. I'm thinking I'm far from perfect and I may say some off things, but this is quite irrational, specially coming from climbers,...that is if you are serious climbers in the first place, maybe internet nerds, I don't know. I would think a climbing community would be a little more tolerant. I think if you got to know me, and I didn't tell you I was a Christian, I would be the guy in your workplace who works hard, and takes care of his friends, Christian or not, and I think we would dig each other, and I think you would speak differently of me. I think these internet forums are a facade of ranting and raving, placing prejudicial past experiences into present judgments, but each of us are different in person. Just a thought.

that's funny, whoever said there is no need to pray in public? Jesus prayed in private and in public. He even raised his hands to the heavens in front of the 5000 people while feeding them. Just a little correction. I'm not going to argue with you though. We don't really stand in circles on the mountain, and face the sky, hands turned up,...we actually pray in our warm mega-mid kitchen tent. However, if I saw someone praying to buddha outside, or skiing down naked from 16k feet, yoga, etc., go for it. Why not? Let them do it. That's there thing. Whom am I to say what they can and can't do on the mountain? Where's the tolerance from those who preach that Christians don't have any?

fear and greed,...sure. Your fire couldn't keep a mouse warm, my guitar's too freaking small.

wow, athiest cc friend, I like your thinking. You're creative in your expression. Well put. Yes, we want to hang out together, climb, summit together, read the bible together, and meet people on the mountain, help people on the mountain if we can. We're casual. We're not Jehovah's Witnesses, going to knock on your tent door suited up. We're freakin climbers with scars, friends have died in our arms in the mountains, we've fallen into crevasses before, have toe jam from wearing boots too long, who really love to climb, and who happen to love God and want to do what's right in his eyes. I think most of the views thus far on Christians is so hijacked, that we're all lumped together under one label, that sucks. There are many genuine believers who are real, honest frail humans who are not fake and will be direct and truthful, who don't have their act together, like myself. But we're trying to live the best we can for God. If I believed that someone was going to die, I would want to save them, but I can't save someone that doesn't want saving. On the mountain, we want to hang out with people, no intentions of "converting" people. If the conversation comes up, then God wants it to happen, and that means both people want to talk. Otherwise, shoving it down someone's throat is not my style, or the guys we climb with, and for that, we respect. Oh yes, and if I saw a guy on a soapbox, I would take a picture as well.

yes on Denali or even 8000m peaks, what is the best boot? I used to have the Millet Everest boot, but I don't know if there's an updated version, or even better brand? I have yellow Arctic Expes?

I was just wondering how you change your name from "Stranger" to something else below your profile name?

Mission Denali Expedition 2008 First of all, we're genuinely looking for climbers for Denali next year. This page is for people interested. If you want to comment on this topic, go to the spray page, there is plenty discussion there. We don't want this to become another spray page. This is just to advertise for any climbers interested. so, please don't comment here. Thanks. Yes, we are looking for a team of climbers to climb Denali (Mt. McKinley, Alaska) with us, (climbingforchrist.org) as a mission to help others on the mountain. (10-12 members only, this is not a guided expedition, so it's inexpensive because there is no profit, but we expect team players). We will attempt the Summit, via West Buttress, but we are committed to serving people on the mountain as God leads us. If you are interested, please visit this website: Mission Denali 2008 and fill out an application if you fulfill some the prerequisites. Thank you. If you have any questions, please email me. Date:May 12 (arrive in Anchorage) to June 6, 2008. Team: 10-12 members. Estimated Cost: $1825 (inexpensive because it's not a guided profit trip)

as for the guitar on the busy west buttress, I agree with the guy above, if you want peace and quiet, West Buttress is probably not the best place for it. Also, with the fact that I'm not amped to a 50/100 watt marshall stack with a custom les paul gibson, it's more like a mandolin that barely produces any decibels enough to play within our tent. I also don't like people playing guitar and singing because usually they are not good. I know what you're talking about. For us, I don't see any harm with what we did last year. We're sensitive to our surroundings, and have respectable amount of social skills. All our friends we met up the hill were camped around us, and they were cool. Besides, the guy who skied down naked from 16k to 14k camp, the loud conversations around the tents about balls and things freezing, which was actually quite entertaining, the guy who took the wrong pills and was flighted off in a coma with a helicopter, people walking around talking on their satellite phones, others asking for hot cocoa or fuel (and we gave them), some walking to the local craphole and telling of their experience of it, etc., is not the ideal place for peace and quiet. If anything, you hear us, or anybody too loud, have the balls to say bring it down.

joseph, seriously...

21-ML-56465-ML-

Joseph, I'm trying to figure out your point?...We share our faith, whether it's through love or through words, that's what Christians are supposed to do,...but what does that have to do with fundamentalism your portraying. Your attitude is no different from those fundamentalists you're talking about, judging and all, hate. I'm sorry if you've been hurt in the past by other whack jobs. Dan, On another note, that sermon the mount verse you quoted is a good verse, simply for any person, like the pharisee, that pray to appear more spiritual than they really are. Praying, even if seen by anybody is not wrong; it's the attitude and motivation. There's nothing wrong with playing guitar in the mountains, anymore than reading a book. Even reading takes away the purity of quietness. It's not playing the guitar, it's how... you play it. My best man, roommate in college, and former band member, plays guitar for switchfoot. I love guitar. Asking me to leave my guitar at home is like asking you to leave your sleeping bag at home (except that a guitar doesn't keep me warm).

joseph, there's a saying by a great philosopher that says, "Preach at all times, and if possible, use words." That's really what it's all about. Simple. Preach by your love. It's funny you're calling me a fundamentalist, and you don't even know me. Hmm, you're no different.

R. moore, to answer your question simply, most guiding companies, like RMI, charge $5000 to climb Denali, and they don't cover nearly what we cover, like the lodging in anchorage, the extra nights, travel/fuel from Anchorage to talkeetna and back, we cover all food, not just b/d, (we eat really well, not plain mountain house), group purchases, we have satellite phone usage, the bush plane is at least $500 and climbing permit is at or over $250, and more miscellaneous, so yeah, it gets up there easy. So, $5000 compared to $1850 and we cover more, is actually quite good. Hope that answers your question.

hey, regarding the Denali comments, last year we hit the summit of Denali, but helped people on the mountain, and I don't believe we ever preached to anyone, but by our actions of love and honesty, we helped many people, never did any harm to anyone, gave crampons away to some RMI team member who needed them, food, fuel, prayed for sick people, etc, we aim at keeping the mountain clean (leave no trace), hang out with new friends from different countries, take craps in the cans, piss in the pee holes, treat everyone as they wanted to be treated, anything wrong with that? Your idea of "preaching", like you were doing to me, regarding your "mountain god" (I'm right and your wrong mentally) is judgmental and flawed. That's not us. You have judged me, but I'm cool with that. It doesn't offend. So we believe the Bible,... so what, lot of people do. You believe the mountain is your god. So what, go for it. I will not judge you for it, nor bother trying to convince you otherwise. The climbing community has always been respectful of anyone's religious beliefs, so I might nicely add that you respect other people's beliefs. Be cool to others and they'll be cool to you. By the way, you shouldn't have a problem with us, since your mountain god didn't have a problem with us on Denali this '07 season, as 8/10 of us made the summit. Take care.

Mission Denali Expedition 2008 Yes, we are looking for a team of climbers to climb Denali (Mt. McKinley, Alaska) with us, (climbingforchrist.org) as a mission to help others on the mountain. (10-12 members only, this is not a guided expedition, so it's inexpensive because there is no profit, but we expect team players). We will attempt the Summit, via West Buttress, but we are committed to serving people on the mountain as God leads us. If you are interested, please visit this website: Mission Denali 2008 and fill out an application if you fulfill some the prerequisites. Thank you. If you have any questions, please email me. Date:May 12 (arrive in Anchorage) to June 6, 2008. Team: 10-12 members. Estimated Cost: $1825 (inexpensive because it's not a guided profit trip)

I never climbed Hood, but I'm willing to climb with any competent rope teams? I just got back from the nasty summit of Denali's West Buttress, so I'm more than able. charleton

I just got back from Denali West Buttress, and there are crevasses everywhere, people falling into them. I broke through a crevasse up to my waist at about 2a.m. leading a group, and it was about 2+ feet wide and went in both directions forever. We had to jump it with our sleds. Pretty deep, and you felt the cold breeze pushing out. The snow is melting quickly. Go before it's not good. I was supposed to go with Dave Hahn June 25th, but I left on May 11th, and got home this week (June 5). By the way, I made the summit. We went with ClimbingforChrist.org

I'm heading to Denali May, and just getting some altitude and physical exercise before I head out, mostly around Northern California, Shasta, Roundtop, and others,...but I wanted to summit Hood before I went for some good pictures, as well as training.

I am looking for experienced mountain climbers to climb Hood. I am climbing Denali this summer, and planning Everest in 2008. I climb Shasta quite bit, have done Rainier, Whitney, and other 10k mountains, very athletic, 32 male, hoping to get some trustworthy partners.