tvashtarkatena

It's no small contingent at the federal level that wouldn't love to see a lot less money thrown down the shitter called the War on Drugs right about now. DOMA's proved to be a stinker for them in court...why not make it a twofer? Federal heavy handedness at the state level can wind up being, well, less than popular among the electorate at large, particularly in this political climate. If the feds wound up in court (and certain organizations would make sure that they would) in the event of a crackdown, the risk of losing would be substantial - exacting even more political cost. Hilary's a shoe in for 2016 if O takes it, Heil to zee Librul Reich, so why fuck that up? Plus, the country will be four years older, and that means four years of giving less of a shit about things like gay weed as the horseshoe crab population dies off. I just don't see such a political investment paying off for anyone. One thing I do see is a great fat steaming turd dropped from the stratosphere by the feds onto any pot farm who tries to truck the stank across state lines. Idaho n Oregon - git yer countryfied shit together and join in! It's best if WA keeps a tight lid on that action its own self, though, to avoid a Holy Plague of Earbuds.

you're doing the lord's work sir, keep it up that said, it's gonna take a big set of nuts to actually set up the first state-sanctioned stores, given that the feds will be itching to seize the whole shooting match in the name of sneering at the will of the people...reckon obama *might* be better in that respect, given that he won't have to run for re-election w/ the cloud of "soft on crime" hanging over his head? Crime ED hasn't been a big federal election issue, of late. 41 years of a lost Drug War kinda toned that down a bit. Our choice of WA Attorney General is actually more important than either the Gov or the Prez. Bob Ferguson (D) has pledged to respect the will of WA voters regarding 502. His ® opponents - not so much, but it'll still be a helluva catfight to defy us all. Don't know what Mittenz would do, but Obama will likely stick with his current DOJ, which busts only those operations which violate state law. I502 actually doesn't violate federal law. States are free to enforce laws on drugs as they see fit. In addition, the federal law in question: the Controlled Substances Act - requires a 'positive conflict' - that is, that the state 'force' people to violate federal law. 502 does no such thing - no one is 'forced' to obtain a pot license. It's completely voluntary. No state employee need ever handle MJ - testing is done by independent private entities - the state just manages that process. MJ businesses can be inspected, but again, the inspectors need never handle the product in the process. OK, they might sample it once in a while on the sly... Politically, the teabagging GOP would have to explain why it's going after a state that just added half a billion a year to its budget for basically doing not much other than changing a law and issuing some licenses. Hey, it's all just my ego talking from the empty chair next to me, so we'll see in a few days how it starts to play out...or not. Walking some precincts to get infrequent voters off the dime is the best thing to do right about now. 502's gonna be a squeeker I think.

More frequency of storms like this could definitely tip the life cycle cost equation towards more underground lines at higher capacities, but not as much as you might think. Underground lines are hugely more expensive...and hugely more expensive and time consuming to repair. The cables last half as long as above ground as well, primarily due to degradation of the thick insulation required. Above ground lines are quick and cheap to repair, in contrast. It's estimated that to put all of Wa DC undergound, for example, would cost $ 6 B - more than $100 per month extra for each customer. Most folks would opt for a few days of blackout every decade or so instead of paying that premium, even in the face of more frequent storms. High capacity lines will probably remain above ground for the foreseeable future, but most storm damage hits local distribution, anyway. An investment in more emergency power generation capacity for critical functions like hospitals would probably be a better near term investment.

Yes, but are they 'angry'?

Nice dodge. Now fuck off.

While I appreciate your chest puffery, my comment was aimed at a badly spun headline that actually attempted to paint the storm victims as a bunch of whiners om a shitty attempt to politicize what has been, reportedly. a well coordinated and executed response. It's an insult to the responders, as well. You didn't get that, and I get that, so you decided to make it personal. I get that, too.

Um...did I say Sandy wasn't a big deal? Is your brother 'frustrated and angry'? Is he freezing to death in those 50 degree temps? In other words, are we even in the same conversation?

Turns out its not all that simple: [video:youtube]

SANDY'S WAKE: Shock and Awe Turns to Anger and Frustration Well, that didn't take long. People still waiting in the 'cold and dark' Yeah...it's, like, 50 F in NJ right now. That's sum fuckn Donner Party shit right there, boyo.

I'm happy to answer questions, but using you PC's 'find' feature on the i502 link I provided would probably be quicker in most cases, cuz that's pretty much what I'm doing.

Misinformation. Fully covered: licensed, taxed, and regulated private stores supplied by licensed, taxed, and regulated growers. Obviously, distribution across state lines is not permitted. Sec. 4. (1) There shall be a marijuana producer's license to produce marijuana for sale at wholesale to marijuana processors and other marijuana producers, regulated by the state liquor control board and subject to annual renewal. The production, possession, delivery, distribution, and sale of marijuana in accordance with the provisions of this act and the rules adopted to implement and enforce it, by a validly licensed marijuana producer, shall not be a criminal or civil offense under Washington state law.

By far the largest reader/viewership of any 'news' outlet. Welcome to America.

I suspect this was his biggest problem. LOL. Also he's limited to 15 plants under Med MJ. Knowledge is power and all that. You can imagine the SWAT team that hit this poor old geezer's crib. It's a wonder he didn't keel over on the spot. What a fawkin' waste of taxes!

A lot of dispensaries here and in other states have operated outside the law and have gotten raided by the feds as a result. That doesn't inspire confidence in a public that's still leery about drug reform, and it also could provoke a stronger federal and state response, particularly if Republicans take the State House and or White House. Sure, regulation is a bad word these days, but it is the path towards normalizing societies attitude towards pot with regards to other, legal controlled substances like booze (which actually causes far more societal harm) The in-your-face pot leaf motif movement has failed to gain any traction with the larger public. After all, you ASK people to vote for reform, you don't DEMAND their vote. I've convinced several little old ladies who would have NEVER voted to legalize weed to change their minds with just a few minutes of conversation. Plus, who doesn't hate hippies? Although they like to claim the mantle, they do not even remotely represent today's pot user.

Sarich's strategy has been to chip away enough of I 502's narrow poll lead (if, in fact, that actually translates to real votes) to defeat it with a misinformation campaign. He's kind of a local, penniless version of Frank Schubert, the organizer behind all four efforts to defeat same sex marriage in WA, WI, MD, and ME. Sadly, Schubert has $40 million backing him. Ironically, 2 years ago the ACLU actually offered to review Sarich's proposed initiative proposal for him prior to a signature gathering effort, and he agreed...but never got back to us. It was a joke, of course. It never even came remotely close to gathering enough signatures to make it on the ballot, thankfully. His second try failed as well. He's really not a serious, open, and ethical public advocate in any sense. Most of SW 'team' have bailed on him and splintered into their own efforts to snipe at I 502 from the sidelines - the've even taken to heckling at ACLU fund raisers (from personal experience - but I have a tried and true method of dealing with such situations swiftly and effectively). Always look at the endorsement list to see who's behind any campaign. I 502's list speaks for itself.

I 502 complete language: http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/initiatives/i502.pdf

It's real: http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2003689817_webmedicalmar02.html The appeals court overturned the conviction, but after how much suffering and cash? This guy had glaucoma - a condition explicitly listed under our Med MJ law. How much harder would it have gone for him if he had gotten an authorization from Dr. Greenthumb (who's likely in violation of the provision prohibiting medical MJ authorizations from being a practitioner's sole practice), for 'chronic back pain'? Anyhoo, most WA prosecutions have involved dispensaries, but google 'medical marijuana convictions washington' should yield a media history of what's gone down for both patients and providers so far. All great questions, BTW. Stuff every med MJ patient really needs to know, but many are unaware of the risks they face under current law. I 502 will remove such risks by providing a) arrest immunity for Med MJ patients and b) a new choice between Med dispensaries and arguably safer retail outlets.

No. The current medical MJ procurement system: designated providers (dispensaries), home grow ops, and 10 person coop grow ops, would remain in place as they are now under I 502. I 502 provides arrest immunity for medical MJ patients. There is no other affect on the existing Med MJ law: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=69.50.101. I 502 would provide another, regulated source of pot for Med MJ patients should they choose to take advantage of it. "Sec. 11. (1) On a schedule determined by the state liquor control board, every licensed marijuana producer and processor must submit representative samples of marijuana, useable marijuana, or marijuana-infused products produced or processed by the licensee to an independent, third-party testing laboratory meeting the accreditation requirements established by the state liquor control board, for inspection and testing to certify compliance with standards adopted by the state liquor control board. Any sample remaining after testing shall be destroyed by the laboratory or returned to the licensee. (2) Licensees must submit the results of this inspection and testing to the state liquor control board on a form developed by the state liquor control board. (3) If a representative sample inspected and tested under this section does not meet the applicable standards adopted by the state liquor control board, the entire lot from which the sample was taken must be destroyed." The details of inspection will be worked out during a 1 year long rule making period. A rule making period is standard for any legislation. The state wouldn't, of course, spend the time and money to make detailed rules of implementation until the law actually passes. Regarding mold, here's one of many websites that discusses it. I can't vouch for this particular site, I just googled 'marijuana growing mold': http://www.maryjanesgarden.com/growing/mold.php That's as far as my pay grade takes me...never grown the stuff myself.

Right on cue: FOX is already cranking up its 'voter fraud' narrative in OH. Between his proposed FEMA gutting and his post auto bailout lies, Mitt may have fucked himself in the ass for the last time.

"Paging Dr. H. Doctor H, to the joke explanation ward, stat."

Back to our friend at Sensible WA: Sarich's misinformation has been focused on three main areas: 1) Minors will be arrested more often under I 502. Why would this be? I 502 has a 21 age limit, like alcohol. Pot would remain illegal for minors. Same as it is now. Sarich has talked of minors getting felony charges - a fabrication. Ironically, pot is much easier to get for minors today precisely because it is not truly regulated, as is alcohol and tobacco. I 502 would eventually make pot as difficult to get as those two other regulated substances. 2) Medical marijuana users (all users, really) will be arrested for exceeding the 5ng/ml whole blood THC limit, because THC stays in your system so long. Also bullshit, for several reasons. a) The blood test is for active THC only (the kind that gets you high). Active THC does not stay in your blood long. After smoking a 'standard' medicinal joint (which is a lot of THC!), the average person would OK to drive within about 4 hours. Inactive THC - or carboxy-THC (THC-COOH) does stay in your system for up to a month. The blood test, which must be administered by a medical professional (the arresting officer actually never sees the result - a judge does) does not test for this - it doesn't get you high. b) Many studies (see newapproachwa.org) have shown that > 5ng/ml whole blood active THC levels significantly increase the risk of accident. Sarich essentially argues that medicinal marijuana patients should be allowed to drive impaired. We, law enforcement, and most of the citizens of WA respectfully disagree. c) Police must have probable cause (observation of impaired driving or non-street legal vehicle) to pull someone over. I 502 will not change this. Drive a legal vehicle safely and you won't get pulled over. d) Finally, medical marijuana patients do not have arrest immunity currently. If a med patient's grow up is busted, they will be arrested, booked, and appear before a judge before they can present their proof - a doctor's authorization. If their condition is manufactured - chronic back pain, etc - they stand a good chance of being convicted. I 502 actually grants arrest immunity to medical marijuana patients (this is the only direct affect on our current medical marijuana law, which remains otherwise untouched by I 502). A patient will simply be able to show their authorization to the arresting officer and avoid arrest on the spot. 3) I 502's 40 g possession limit. 40 g is a lot of pot. Sarich argues for a limit that exceeds a pound. Given that both the public and feds wish to eliminate illegal pot trafficking and all the violence associated with it (which is disturbingly high - my bro is a defense attorney in Humboldt County), neither endorsers nor voters would go for the right to cart around a bale of weed. Sarich's is supported by 3 small special interest groups - 1) currently unregulated gray market growers who want to keep things the way they are - and maintain the ability to sell uninspected weed (dangerous molds and mildews are common in today's med marijuana) and unregulated edibles - unlike any other food business in WA. 2) Defense attorneys who want to maintain today's current grey area for MJ DUIs, and avoid the bright line 5ng/ml limit - despite the fact that we've had a bright line blood alcohol limit for decades, and 3) Pot smokers who just want to be high all the time, including time behind the wheel of a car. A lot of folks do not take Sarich seriously, and it isn't because they are close minded, its because he has proven his lack of accuracy and integrity over and over again. Sarich cares nothing about the civil liberties issues with MJ - high incarceration rates, 3:1 discrimination against African Americans, huge life cost of a marijuana arrest. If he did, he'd support I 502, despite his objections about the 21 and over age limit and the DUI provision.

the birther narrative is a clumsy attempt to make obama out to be less american than the rest of us. his values are foriegn. Its a standard GOP schtick - soshulists, euro surrendet monkeys, freedom fries - and , sadly, it does work when done right. the birthers are simply on the far end of a spectrum - the Right's standard procedure of grading their opponents by Americaness. FOX - the Right's mainstream media outlet, really pushed this one - emphasizing Obama's 'foreign values', which are just 'not like the rest of us', then quickly following up with ' not that there's anything wrong with that' to maintain that veneer of decency righties love to trot out any time they're called on their bullshit. You know, the party of rape babies, denying poor women basic health care funding, and no sex education in schools calling others misogynist for using the c word and the like. I call it the 'Oh my!' affectation. It's quite familiar by now to anyone on this forum. This isn't 'being partisan'. It's simply recognizing a steaming pile when you smell it.

meh. its called tongue n cheek. u dish it out often enough. kinda weird that u cant pick up on it. Sky's got a PhD n he doesnt seem to have that blind spot.

u provide what you've been told by them and ill respond. theyve been pretty much all over the map. if u need a general education on 502 including the initiative itself, www.newapproachwa.org one anecdote (there are so many) SWs website advised its '100% volunteer' signature gatherers to sign on as 1240 paid singature gatherers and also collect signatures for their initiative (which never came close to making the ballot - they have no credibility and therefor no donation funding), stating that this was sanctionedby the 1240 campaign. Hmmm, I thought, so I called the 1240 campaign coordinator. She was PISSED. by end of day every paid signature gatherer who'd been engaging in this practice had been fired without pay and their sig sheets thrown away. ie, SW lied to their volunteers, and their supporters regarding their much touted 'no paid signature gatherer, all grass roots' movement. small wonder why no one gives them any money.

i can address sensible washingtons critiques and accusations, which have been numerous, point by point. i also have had first hand dealings with their tactics, many of which have been flat out unethical. sensible washington is mainly one guy named steve sarich and a couple of his pals, BTW. they've waged an active misinformation campaign to confuse voters which can be readily debunked.