minddoc

Good question not "better coping mechanisms" but different. And you are right I am making some assumptions that climbers are different or we would be playing baseball and driving around in RVs. There seems to be a subset of people who climb and then a smaller subset of climbers who climb their whole life and make it a lifestyle. At this point the research is saying climbers are mostly the same as others. They only seem to differ in intellectualizing. But I think there is more… But maybe not… we will see

Rationalization is about the same thing as intellectualizing. So you are right, in theory the climber rationalizes more then the non-climbing population in every day life, not only with climbing. So there are some theories that might suggest intellectualizing or rationalization is a “better” way of coping or a better “ego defense” then others such as denial, avoidance, regression (becoming child like), etc. At this point I am not sure how that is helpful for anyone. So I need to do some work, and you guys/gals are helping me think through this so thanks. It’s really cool to get peoples view on this. I have been working on it for so long I have a hard time developing new questions and ideas. It seems like people who don’t know the work can ask questions that are obvious to others but not to me because I have been looking at it for so long.

Good question? Why do you think they would be more likely to stop before 4 years in cal. Wonder if these findings were due to the fact you did your study in California.

:lmao: Nice It's obvious climbing hasn't helped you with your psychological problems. Isn't there some kind of label for people who verbally attack another without provocation? Oh yeah, it is called a sociopath.

You think you have a problem. What about me ! One of the reasons I think I stayed in school for so long was so I could keep climbing and adventuring. That's one of the reasons I picked climbing to research because I could do stuff like this at work and justify it. Now that I have gotten into it, it seems like it could be helpful to others. But not us as climbers. Diagnoses I have high anxiety levels and climbing is better then being a drunk. I think climbing is calming for me... a bit paradoxical. Sorry no help here for your climbing problem... the alternative is most likely going to the mall... But what if climbing IS your problem??? Who's gonna help us ?

I have no intention of taking people climbing or using Physical skills for climbing mountains in order to help them. I am looking at the ego defenses people use. Thus far it appears that climbers intellectualize more than non-climbers. So I am looking at how intellectualization can help people over come fears etc. Is intellectualization a skill that can be helpful to others and if so how does one develop that ability instead of using denial or avoidance etc.

I have not disregarded the results I have this far. I only want to expand on them. Finding the results "I want" makes no difference to me. It's not like I am in a money making system here, if I wanted to do that, I would stop doing research in this area, and get paid by someone. I am continuing with this because it could be helpful in my own practice and for others in the mental health field, plus the area is interesting to me. The last study does suggest that climbers and non-climbers cope with stress in the same way. Which I think is very interesting, in that even under periods of high levels of long-term stress people may use the same coping mechanisms. However, I would like to see what the results would be if I looked at a different population of climbers (10+ years of climbing as a lifestyle) compared to non-climbers. I now live in an area that I can continue to do research with climbers and I am not under pressure with time lines. I think we can all agree that climbers are a different breed. I believe they are amazing people with unique skills, physically and mentally. Understanding their/our mental skills maybe helpful for those who need help with serious issues-- drug problems, over coming traumas such as sexual assault, etc. If you or anyone have any questions feel free to pm me

Yes that is a question I will use for the more formal research, but for here it seemed to be a good cut off (4 years). I am finished with the first part of the work but did not find significant correlations. The results suggest that climbers cope with stress the same way as non-climbers, don't believe this. I now need to revamp one of the questionnaires. I also need to find a different population, as finding 100 or more climbers who have climbed for 20+ years and are willing to fill out the paper work is a difficult and time consuming process. The first work was done with all male climbers but the population was a bit scattered with years climbing and ability. Now I have more time I can start looking for that population of climbers. ps I am doing this as a side project in addition to my regular work. Thanks for the feedback

"Tommy boy" "A lot of people go to college for six years." "Yeah, they're called doctors."

No not a student, just work in the area. Give me some feed back on your experience, please.

Thanks for your input Muffy. One area I have not looked at, at this point is female climbers and differences in dealing with stress compared to men, mostly due to lack of funds. But it will happen. I am guessing women may have better coping skills then men. ps I hate spelling and grammar is not bad spelling. It is unintelligible gibberish. I mean, muffy can't spell but I can still understand her. Awwww i love you too g-spotter xxoxoxoxoxoox i have been climbing for like 9 years. when i can't climb i dream about it and am tense and on edge (like right now) when i can climb i climb at least once i week. everything else i do is in relation to climbing. i work out becuase i am training to climb, i eat well so i can climb harder and i go to work so i can aford geard. (i am exagerating but only a little) i do sitll push my limits and try things that challenge me. if i am not scared and falling i am not learning.

Yes, you are right I suck at spelling. I use dictation for all my notes and assessments. My patients don’t usually care. I will try harder next time . I will try to edit. Got to run, thanks for the feedback. is not bad spelling. It is unintelligible gibberish. I mean, muffy can't spell but I can still understand her.

Smart enough to know not to worry about spelling.. If you worried less about "then" and "than" you might be a Dr. Joking here... ps Maybe you are a Dr.

Yes I know but I can only use so many categories this is the problem with research, plus this is just a rough idea for now. But I like this format because people can say what they want like you said "I climb more then once a week." Its like doing a quantitative/qualitative research at the same time.

I wrote my dissertation on mountaineering and coping with stress. I believe that climbers have something in their psychology which can be helpful for those struggling with psychological problems. One of my findings was that there are few people who climb for more then 4 years. It seems that the novelty runs out for them. I am wondering how many of you on the board have climbed for more than 4 years and if so are you doing a lot of personally challenging routes? ("personally challenging routes" and "a lot" as defined by you) If you have been climbing for less then 4 years are you doing a lot of personally challenging routes? ("personally challenging routes" and "a lot" as defined by you) Thanks your answers may be helpful to those outside of the climbing world someday. (I can't find a way to change the wording of the poll so what I mean by" pushing my level" is "continue to challenge myself" For example I have climbed for more then 4 years, but I no longer push my level or challenge myself as I once did. This is not a poll I would use for research; however, it will help me to gather some information for further research.) Feel free to add any comments. Grammar comments are also welcome.

In the last few years the best climbing for me has been the end of Aug. before the, real stuff on the steep sections (blue ice) comes through end of sept. Oct. In the last two years some places have not melted out (I think?) because of the good snow levels. This year my Friend from Cal. told me he has already been on some ice because of the low snow levels this year. What makes me somewhat confused is that climbs like the Wedge and other climbs in canada come in, in sept. At least that is my experience. I am still trying to figure this out. i.e. What is good when. Maybe, its like some people say "its all good" but I don't like that statement most of the time.

DNM coffee... We should meet up. I will be leaving here Sept. 1st, but my new climbing partner from here is looking for someone long term. Lets talk

Crap , so that mean I was way off course or need to adapt to my new enverment soon . thanks for the info

I’m in town for a year working in Ellensburg (Sierra alpine ice climber ). I headed up to the Ice Cliff Glacier route today at about 3am from the lot, got to the base of Stuart about 7:30am (Wow WA bush whacking! Not like Cal.! Seemed like we made good time even with getting lost and spending a lot of time wondering if we were in the right spot). After finding my way around it seemed to be getting a little late when we finally arrived at the Glacier. We climbed up a bit, saw a large rock come winging down, it was about 10:30. We called it off; it seemed to late, as it was getting warm. Now I am thinking we could have done it, as the return trip was fast, 3.5 hours or so. But not knowing the route, much about climbing in WA and poor visibility we called it good. The route looks do able for my ability but it could be a bit more then I want. So for those of you who are vet Washington Climbers I have a few questions. How difficult is it to turn back after the top of the cliff or on the couloir proper? Is the couloir all ice this time of year? Is there much glacier travel above the ice wall? The lower glacier was all ice but looked fairly easy to navigate, I think?? Thanks for the info

I am moving to Ellensburg WA (from Northern Cal) next week and have some free time before I start work. I would love to do something with some 50-65 degree ice and some easy rock. Maybe something like the Wedge in BC. I don't know the area very well. This is a new and exciting area to explore for me so post a message and PM me. I can leave anytime between Aug 31st and the 3rd of Sept. I can drive to meet up and drive.

Thanks everyone. I love this cite it misses out on a lot of the rude sarcasm and gets down to the real issues.

I will check out Mt. Maude any other ideas? Cascade concrete--nice!

I guess California may be a bit different, as the ice comes in late summer and fall for couloir climbs. Its great ice you should check it out. So, its seems that in Washington terms I am looking for alpine ice without to much of a glacier crossing. I am willing to travel a bit if need be. It looks like I may need to learn some new language for climbing in Washington and BC. I am guessing that the skiing will be a bit different as well.

Tom, I am new in the area and would like to do this with you. I am use to climbing Sierra couloirs. I have not done a lot of glacier travel but I have done some climbing in Banff and did a climbing school with Yamnuska about four years ago. I start my new job on the 5th of Sept. so it would be a great start. check your pm box for my email address

I am moving up to Ellensburg WA. this week 8.26.06. I am leaving my climbing partner behind as well. No matter I am looking to do some solo couloir climbs (or alpine ice) this late summer and fall and am wondering if anyone has some ideas for me. I am comfortable with sole ice routes at about 45 to 50 degrees. I don’t want to cross any huge glaciers to get there. I am use to Sierra couloirs. Thanks for your help.