madrasrock

Dear AMGA Member, Thanks to the generous sponsorship of Arc'teryx, the AMGA is bringing the Round Table Discussion on Advocacy to you. This is a great opportunity for members to connect with AMGA staff, hear about our recent initiatives and advocacy efforts, and discuss national and local guiding issues. September 12, Friday, Seattle WA. * Venue: Mountaineers Seattle Program Center, Goodman Rm., 7700 Sand Point Way NE, 98115. * Time: 5-8pm PDT A HUGE THANKS TO THE MOUNTAINEERS FOR SUPPORTING and HELPING ORGANIZE THIS IMPORTANT EVENT!!! SPECIAL UPDATE FOR SEATTLE ROUND TABLE: The AMGA is excited to host, in partnership with Arc'teryx, the 3rd stop of our Round Table Tour on Advocacy at The Mountaineers in Seattle, Washington. This meeting will be unique in that stakeholders from all facets of the guiding/outdoor industry will be present to engage in a broader discussion about the U.S. permitting process and the common challenges we all face as commercial operators on our public lands. The goal of this distinctive round table discussion is to identify the common challenges of guides, guide services, outdoor educators, and volunteer groups etc. as it relates to accessing/utilizing our public lands and to begin building a conversation that focuses on creating a unified voice for advancing the greater needs of the outdoor recreation service provider. We invite you to be a part of this very important dialogue. Light food and beverage will be provided. We look forward to seeing you there! Topics of Discussion: * Permitting Process on U.S. Public Lands * Needs of AMGA Stakeholders * Common Challenges & Opportunities * Strategies for Moving Towards Improved Access BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION and COME TO THE SEATTLE ROUND TABLE Some people might be interested in what the AMGA is doing.

I was down there on Saturday climbing at Northern point, we spent about a hour watching the light show on the Redwall area, from what we could see that they were on Helter Skelter about where is makes a turn to the right or route to the left. I do not have the new climbing book.

You are about 5 hours from Smith Rock, which is the best climbing in Oregon, there are other climbing areas, but your are looking at a minumum of three hours one way, from any climbing. Rick

If you want the public to come you might let them know what planet this event is on or may be an address would do.

I do not think this will repeal the TITLE VIII--FEDERAL LANDS RECREATION ENHANCEMENT ACT. The act has very detailed conditions for charging and who you can charge. I think the judge is saying USFS you must obay the law. The bad thing is I think we will be living with it for the next ten year. But the Good thing if we make the USFS obay the law it will be tolarable. So down load it Read it and carry it with you. http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/feedemo/fee_legislation.html If you have to read it to the USFS. I am not shure if they know how to read.

You all must have failed US History 101, the government has always sold land. Be sides, the government owns all the land any way you just pay them money to use it. If you don’t think so just stop paying your taxes and see what will happen, or now a developer can get the government to take your land and turn it in to condo’s and you can do nothing about it.

Last year a group of Boy Scout’s were denied access to the wilderness, when kids are getting heaver and heaver, and seeing the latest data about obesity in young people of our country because they are not getting enough exercise, and with the decreasing use of the wilderness by young people that would rather play video games then explore the wilderness. I was shocked when I head that, last summer a Boy Scout troop from Bend was cited for having too many people in the wilderness. According to the troop leader they had 13 people in the troop going in to the Three Sisters Wilderness. Knowing there was some kind of partly limit the scout troop divided the kids in to two groups. Each group traveled and camp in separate areas. But the US Forest Service sited the troop leader for having too many people in the wilderness. Just because they were from the Boy Scouts organization, that made them a group. This got me interested in just what dose the 1964 Wilderness Act say. After extensive research I could not find any thing in the 1964 Wilderness Act or the new 2005 Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act, that limits the use of public lands. On the contrary in Section 3 (J) of the 2005 Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act it stated “NO RESTRICTION ON RECREATION OPPERTUNITIES— Nothing in this Act shall limit the use of recreation opportunities only to areas designated for collection of recreation fees.” Congress obviously want citizens to us there public lands. As I continued my research looking for that laws that allowed the USFS to limit the number of people using the wilderness, I found sec. (3) (a) (2) of the 1964 Wilderness Act which states “Maps, legal descriptions, and regulations pertaining to wilderness areas within respective jurisdictions also shall be available to the public in the offices of regional foresters, national forest supervisors, and forest rangers.” So according to the law the US Forest Service should have the wilderness regulations that could show me all the things I can and can not do in the wilderness. I was very disappointed after contacting several Forest Service offices. Most of the district and forest offices did not know any thing about wilderness regulations or they would not even return my calls or e-mail’s Only the Bend Ranger district could even supply me with any official regulation document, the “Three Sisters Wilderness Use Restrictions Deschutes National Forest” but the forest ranger I talk to did not know if the Order DES-2005-002 was the legal document stated in the Wilderness Act. But that is the one he used. When inquiring about the regulation that limited the number of people in the wilderness. I received many, many opinions, but no one could show me the laws that the wilderness act was referring to. Again only the Bend Ranger Districts document DES-2005-002 item #2 which states “Entering or being in the wilderness as part of a group of more than twelve people and or with more than twelve head of stock.” had any reverence to limits to public lands. The document quoted Code of Federal Regulations (CFR).36 CFR 261.57 (a) as the supporting law to there statement. The 36 CFR 261.57 (a) states “When provided by an order, the following are prohibited: (a) Entering or being in the area.” NO one could tell me the definition of a “group” I had some USFS employees say if I knew twelve other people in the wilderness, I would be in violation of the regulation, and if more than twelve people were gathering in one place are they would be in violation of the 12 person limit. I wonder how that works at the summit of mountains? Maybe we need to take numbers to stand on the summit of a mountain. Reading the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR).36 CFR 261.57 (a) I realized that using this regulation to limit the number of people using the wilderness is really a catch all for allowing the USFS employee to use this code for any personal opinions on what they think the wilderness should be like. They could use this regulation to promote certain types of shoes, have certain types of cloths or even only allow certain kinds of people or only certain groups in to the wilderness. So watch out the Forest Service use of Code of Federal Regulations (CFR).36 CFR 261.57 (a) can and most likely will be used in any way they seem fit, because most of the employees do not even know the laws or have any ideas there is laws that regulated the wilderness. They just make it up.

With 99% of all rappelling accident’s happening to the first person down, the best way to assure that there is never a rappelling accident is to always use a second line belay on all rappels. So how can one set up a second line belay with one rope? (or two tied together) Thread the rope through anchor points like normal. Tie a double figure 8 know on one side, then equalize the eight knot with two quick draws, back to the two anchor points. Throw that line off the cliff. Use the other end of the rope tie it on to the rappeller, and have your partner belay you down, as you rappel. There are several advantages to this method. First, if the first rappeller has problems with a tangled rappel rope, the rope is to short, anything, he just fixes it, (he’s on a belay). Second, both ropes end up in picture book manner, so the second person down has no problems. Third, this method can save lots of time messing with tangles or missed placed rappelling lines. Finally and most important every one goes home. A couple of final notes make sure your second unties the eight not and grabs your two quick draws. The second should always check their rappel setup before un-hooking from the rappel anchor, and if you want extra security the first climber down can hold the two rope from the bottom and pull, that will stop anyone coming down the rope. So be safe and take your time to do it right.