darstog

We'll be at the circuit tomorrow (saturday) at around 12:30pm. I'll probably be focusing most of my attention on the little one, so for those of you who have younger climbers, bring them on by. Be good to get that whole community thing going.

Squid, Wait until next weekend, when the weather will be better, and meet me at smith. Welcome back.

Has anybody seen "K2" (or as I like to call it "K2: The Ultimate High") lately? I would venture to say that it's a fine film. A stunning cinematic achievement. There are so many issues raised in the film that continue to be relevant to this day. Alpine style vs. seige style mountaineering: "Fast and loose is not the way to climb K2" "Dallas is the best expedition planner in the states." "If I would have known that, I would have let him pack my bags for me." Oooh, just thinking about it gets my heart thumping. On belay, Taylor

The family just moved to Portland and we're trying to meet some new people with children and similiar interests. We have a 3 year-old girl and we all love to go to the Circuit gym (for those of you who haven't been, they're super kid-friendly--they have a boulder with a slide down the back that our daughter loves). Was wondering if there are any other climber parents with kids who would like to meet up semi-regularly to climb, get the kids together, watch them climb up the boulder go down the slide, up the boulder down the slide, boulder slide, boulder slide, ad nauseum. If you're interested, PM me or reply and we can maybe get a regular time together (it's best to be in there before 6, when it gets busy with the post-work crowd). Thanks.

So remember back to like 2002, when this company called Mad Rock came out with rock shoes called Phoenix, Mugen, Flash, etc. that were like 60% percent of the cost of "comparable" rock shoes? And we (or at least I) were all excited, because we all like to spend a little less on gear? And then we found out they were made in China? And we normally like things that are made in the US, or in Italy, Spain, or wherever because there's a noticable difference in quality, but we figure "well, for 60% percent of the cost of a similiar shoe, I'll take a look at them." And then they actually came out and they sold like hotcakes. And I took more than a few looks at the Mad Rock climbing shoes. And you could tell that they were made "offshore". The quality of craftmanship was far, far inferior to those of the domestically made rock shoes. And then do you remember what happened to the rock shoe industry? It changed dramatically. Since so many people were buying so many shoes almost entirely based on price, the competition had to lower it's prices and take some other measures to compete. So shoes like the 5.10 moccasym started being produced in Mexico so that they could be made a little cheaper. Did anybody ever see any of the Moccasyms that were made in Mexico? Good god were they awful. But I figured, all of these foreign made shoes are first-run models, the quality will get better. And then the quality didn't get better. And then Montrail came out with climbing shoes. And I've now had 5 pairs of Montrails (all of which were either given to me or I got for a few bucks off the rep) and all 5 pairs have delaminated and all 5 pairs climbed without the precision or the sensitivity of their competitors. And when I've talked to employees of the company, I've actually gotten the response, "you should see where the shoes are made," insinuating that I shouldn't expect much more. And quality of rock shoes was declining more and more. So now companies like La Sportiva make little or no money off their best selling rock shoe, the Cliff, in the US because they've had to lower their price a good deal and combined with the "strength" of the US dollar, it's not a real winning proposition. And then the 5.10 Coyote rock shoe came out and the 5.10 Sapphires that are being made entirely overseas. Great quality there, too. So now it's 2005 and this company called Mad Rock is coming out with this mountaineering boot, the Alpinist, and it's going to be like 60% of the price of comparable mountaineering boots. And some people are all excited, because we all like to spend a little less on our climbing gear... I don't want to be a miser, and although I don't know Layton, I'm psyched as hell that he's landed a deal with them because he's obviously deserving of it. But I pulled out my La Sportiva Trango Extreme S's this morning, just to make sure. And yeah, they retailed for like $350. But there on the label is "Made in Italy". And, honestly, they're amazing. They're so well made. They walk like a dream. I totally trust those boots, probably more than my ability on the terrain they're meant to handle. And today at the gym I'm letting a friend of mine borrow my Muira's. And dear lord do the Muira's climb like champs. Again, they're better shoes than I am a climber (Made in Italy stamped on them). And I'll probably climb in my Moccasym's (Made in USA), again footwear that performs better than I do. Or maybe I'll climb in my Evolv's (who have their uppers made overseas but do all the rands, soles, technical stuff in the US) and they're the shit too. Do the Montrail Karma, the Mad Rock Loco, or the Oversea Crapola, compare to these shoes? Not really. Am I a complete hypocrite and have gone through 5 pairs of Montrails? Yep. Are most of my clothes, etc, made overseas? Yeah, aren't yours. But I try to buy US when I can and I will only buy rock shoes made stateside or in Italy (didn't bother resoling one of my Montrails, though I have 2 pairs of sportivas and a 2 pairs of 5.10s waiting for resoles). Again, am I pissed at the people who wear Mad Rock shoes or do I blame Layton for accepting some gear from them? No, I've done the same. But if you ask me if I wish I'd never heard the name "Mad Rock," I might say yes. I think they've seriously damaged the rock shoe industry, I'm concerned about what will happen with Mountaineering boots if these take off (Don't get me started on the sieve-like Montrail Ice-9 boots, remember those?). I'll retract any and all of this if they're hiring.

As a young man, throwing myself over and over again at Coach's crack, poor as all getup, and dumb as hell, I never used tape. Now, as an old man, after having been accused of stigmata (good god, you're hands are always bleeding, man), and having seen the light, I now actually occasionally use tape, sometimes, almost always at the UW wall. Any tips to help build up leathery hands?

All good. And I am sensitive. My nano may not be as big as your ipod, but it's all about how I swing it, not about size.

Cobra, I got the Nano so I can listen to tunes while I ride my (13 year-old) bike to work. And I have a 3 year-old daughter. Feel like an ass? There being no thread yet on the Nano, I started one so that people could post/read about experiences with this little piece of technology. I've had mine for about 3 weeks now and really love it. It's the weight of a normal biner, fits into super-small pockets, and (based on my limited experience) is worth the money. 2 gigs worth of music is actually a lot of tunes, so I'm pretty stoked on it. The thing I'm most worried about is losing it. Thanks for the spray. Chris

Nano. Worth the price. Nano.

I've heard for a while that they've been looking to lighten the cobra up, and that they were going to "update" it. The thickness of the carbon fiber on the cobra actually makes it heavier than the Viper. They were going to update the cobra, keeping the carbon fiber shaft, making it lighter than the viper while still retaining the dampening qualities of the cobra. Others on this site probably know more.

NOLSe, You know a fair amount more about synthetic insulation than I do, but I do own the Mammut Cloud jacket, which has an uber-thin layer of MTI performance. Unless I'm mistaken, it's last year's version of the stratus. I've been really impressed with the insulation. I've talked to the Mammut rep once about the insulation, and he was saying that there are 3 kinds of insulation in that fill, a 3-denier, a 5-denier, and a 7-denier (I may be mistaken on the numbers, so say +/- 1 denier). The Montbell looks to have 2 types of insulators, an 8 and a .7 (how can they make .7 denier insulators, that's crazy thin?). So I'd imagine that the Mammut must be a little more durable, wouldn't you think that once the .7 denier insulation was shot, you'd lose some of your warmth? Anyway, the cloud is quite warm for what it is, but remember how light that is. So it's not like an inferno in my jacket. But this year, they've put "double the insulation into the stratus hooded jacket." I think this would be a little more functional. Either way, I'm pretty impressed with the warmth from the uber-thin layer of my cloud. To me, it's a perfect piece for belays on cool routes. It's not a full on belay jacket. Even the Stratus (with double the fill), wouldn't be a full on belay jacket for cold routes. With double the fill, I'd imagine it would be like the Mountain Hardware compressor or the REI gossamer. I'd trust the Mammut over the Montbell. Why not Primaloft? Wild Things Nevado? Epic shell. If you want to check out my cloud, I'll be at the circuit gym around 6ish. Reply to Darstog: Some helpful information; some gobbledygook jibberish. Reply from Darstog: Par for the course.

When I called bittersweet gear, the phone rang and rang, and when I e-mailed, it came back undeliverable as their inbox was overfull. Not looking like I'll get the helmet from them. But I'm still interested in finding out who will be making the new generation of this helmet.

So HB went out of business and their old Dyneema helmets are getting hard to find. I meant to buy one forever and just kept waiting and waiting. Now the foam in my BD helmet is cracking and I want a Dyneema helmet (no more foam and low-volume suspension-style). I heard that another company is going to start making dyneema helmets. It's not BD. It's not DMM. Who is it? Rumor is they'll be around in late spring. Anybody know? Let the trade secrets flow like water...

I see what you're getting at, and I won't rush to the assumption that W believes aliens have supported our evolution. And I'll back down when somebody can prove that W believes the earth is older than 7,000 years. Until then, the rest of my argument remains.

Go ahead and check the labels of a great deal of the new Arc'Teryx products. Gloves, sportswear are almost all made overseas. As far as Patagonia goes, there surely must be somebody who reads this site that can attest to the working conditions in factories producing Patagonia products. I don't think this thread is about who's a better person (Yvon or W), I think this is about isolating some very discouraging aspects of how the LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD looks at said world (as 7,000 years old). As far as not having definitive evidence of W's beliefs, one need only logic: Proponents of ID believe that the world is only 7,000 years old. George Bush is obviously a proponent of ID. Ergo George Bush believes (and does not deny otherwise) that the world is 7,000 years old. Now, if one wants to be open minded and say, "Hey, I'm open minded, lets let them teach a couple of theories, evolution and ID," one needs to bear in mind how absolutely shortsighted this is and how it only teaches science and the Judeo-Christian ideas. If you're going to open the gates and teach non scientific (religious) ideas about the history of the universe, it's racist/xenophobic/close-minded/wrong to only teach those of Fundamentalist Christian theories. If Bush wasn't trying to push his Fundamentalist Christian beliefs on EVERY CHILD IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, and was only trying to open the minds of others, surely he would be asking that a great many ideas/creation stories/mythologies are taught. Aboriginal Austrailians believe that all animals and humans were formed from the earth. You don't see W pushing that idea into the public schools, only close-minded Judeo-Christian ideas. Let's take a look at those who believe that the earth is 7,000 years old: Orthodox Jews, Conservative Catholics, Mormons, Fundamentalist Christians, and a few other groups of really, really welcoming, loving individuals. And if we want irony, we need look no further than the fact that Texas oil money comes from (duh) oil, which takes millions upon millions of years for nature to produce. Or maybe the intelligence put it undeground for us. So the intelligence put forests for us to take trees? You proud, squid?

Sounds like you're right, that the W does believe (or at least won't deny believing) that the earth is less than 6,000 years old. That's amazing. Did Cher say it best when she sang, "If I could turn back time..." Does this absolutely amaze anybody else? Anybody who, say, has any belief in SCIENCE!!! Let's all hear one for Christian Fundamentalism.

I've finally fallen into the trap and am making my first post in Spray. Squid, are you proud? Just glancing through Alpinist 12 and there's a brief interview with Yvon Chouinard on the last page. He mentions that Bush doesn't believe in global warming because of his conviction that the earth is only 6-8k years-old. Part of me wants Chouinard to be right because, you know, we all like that hippy Patagucci lifestyle stuff, but I'm feeling like I want him to be dead wrong. Does anybody have any information to substantiate this claim?

Just about to throw the rack and the rope into the car. I'll be at bat wall around 4:30, unless I run into somebody needing a partner between here and there...

New to Portland and I have a couple of hours this afternoon. I'm planning on heading up to Broughton (where I've climbed a few times now) and am looking to meet some people. I'm bringing a rope and a medium-ish rack. Unless I meet anybody specific, I may wander on down to Bat Wall and get spanked there. However, I'd be just as happy to climb Gandalf's or at Hanging Gardens or whatever. I'm very non-discriminatory, I'm just as happy to get spanked on a 12 as I am on a 9, or I'm happy to lead moderates all day. I'll be there from like 4-6pm.

Squid (who has over a thousand posts now) once told me that CC was pretty much a spray site where occasionaly, just occasionally you can pull some good info or meet a partner on. Guess I've hit "spray" and not "occasionally" yet. Still hoping. Still thinking about running some laps at Tieton on Friday morning before coming back to p-town.

Good lord, I figured one of you would be going. Would it sweeten the deal at all if I said I was thinking of maybe crashing out near Tieton thursday night, waking up early friday, and then climbing a couple routes before coming back to Portland?

Hey, I just moved from Seattle to Portland and am planning on going to the Pearl Jam show at the Gorge this Thursday, meeting a friend coming from Seattle. Since I don't really know anybody in the area, I was wondering if other people are going and would like to carpool. I would be glad to chip in for gas or would be glad to drive if passengers were willing to split gas. The show starts at like 7:30 and I haven't figured out what time I'll leave Portland (I live in NE) or whether I'll stay at the gorge that night, return home to Portland, or (most likely) sleep at a campground somewhere in between. Post a follow-up or PM me if you're interested in carpooling. Awesome.

See, now, I don't think this is the best way to go about things. "I heard" "could be a rumor" "if it's true"... I re-opened this thread because I visited the place and was excited about the positivity surrounding the gym, their opening, and their attitude toward the PDX climbing community. Some people sound upset about how PRG is handling the opening of the circuit. Whatever is true regarding that situation, it doesn't help things to spread rumors about PRG management...

I guess Dr Flash works at PRG or something? Sorry to interfere with your Flashbashing. And, Squid, I am crushed: for once I thought somebody had noticed my thighmastering, jazzmastering, and 8-minute-absercizing paying off. Alas, it's back to the freezer where a gallon of Rocky Road will be my only consolation (as well as the major obstacle in my comeback to mediocre bouldering). The Circuit Gym better be my secret weapon, I've got a fair amount of pride at stake in the next SBC, training must start soon.

Not a shill. Not hired. Barely any muscle under all this weight I've gained lately. Just moved to Portland and am shopping around gyms. I think it might be difficult for me to join a gym whose owner sends the fire marshall out to the competition. I thought I'd put some positivity towards the opening of a new business whose mission is to support the climbing community. And it's the only gym I've ever been in that not only provides a boulder with a freakin' slide, but was psyched to see me come in with a 3 year-old. I just hope they make it, financially.