Kimmo
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Posts posted by Kimmo
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except.... he doesn't.....
really say anything.
i'm holding out for the synopsis.
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I voted against I-522, not because of any money spent on advertising by the opposition. I know this because I saw and heard literally no advertising against I-522 whatsoever. (I watch almost no television, and no local TV at all, and no radio either.)
But the issue did matter to me, so I reflected on how much I hate Monsanto, and I read editorials, and even stopped into the Spray community to read what various familiar voices had to say in this forum. In fact, the only paid-for promotionals I saw were those in favor of 522. But "you guys" still lost the debate, in my view, by a long shot.
Take heart. If you can't win the vote of a life-long liberal and environmentalist who hates Monsanto and was subject to absolutely none of your opposition's persuasion (someone like me), then you can know your argument is weak. That means it's all up to you change the outcome--by making a better case--next time around, or by whatever alternative route.
But the tantrums expressed in the wake of the I-522 defeat, the juvenile and irrational outrage expressed by proponents on the intellectual spectrum all the way from you to Rachel Maddow, won't translate to a better case. All that's done by such demonstration is to show how sound critical thinking can be absent from the processes of even very smart people. And yes, it may be clearly departed from stupid ones too. Obviously.
93% of Americans favor blah blah blah. Good work, that. Later.
in all seriousness, i should ask what your misgivings regarding i522 were.
i'm sure you're probably sick of the subject, but maybe a quick synopsis? i promise i won't take anything you say as fuel for the furthering of the argument! just genuinely curious.
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Take heart. If you can't win the vote of a life-long liberal and environmentalist who hates Monsanto and was subject to absolutely none of your opposition's persuasion (someone like me), then you can know your argument is weak.
maybe that says more about you than it does about the argument. sorry.
But the tantrums expressed in the wake of the I-522 defeat, the juvenile and irrational outrage expressed by proponents on the intellectual spectrum all the way from you to Rachel Maddowwhich tantrum?
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Finally, not a peep here over Obama's massive escalation of drone killings in places we're not even at war with.
the drone killings are atrocious. and obama ain't my hero. jesus, is he anybody's?
and "over here"?
in this cyber-room populated by 5 people? what are you looking for?
and, tell me about jimmy carter's missteps with the economy.
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I haven't had internet for awhile, so I haven't had the pleasure to follow CC spray.
Regarding the fact that the producer pays for safety research on its own products. Who else is going to pay for it? You? me? The government? If the inventor didn't have to foot the bill for getting a GMO approved there'd be many more on the market. The approval process isn't cheap because they have to show the FDA that the products are safe before they can make a cent off of them. Monsanto sells roundup ready and Bt seed because they had the money to demonstrate their safety. Do your own independent analysis, you'll find the exact same thing.
you're kidding, right? a joke?
Haha, good one.
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In the end, I kinda think that this whole affair wasn't really about I522 at all....
I admit to having a deep appreciation for the advertising agency involved on behalf of the anti-522 campaign (Publicis Group). While I'm most likely completely ignorant of any subtleties at work within their approach, the 20 Million Dollars of blunt and repetitious head trauma that I witnessed was probably all that was needed, yes?
So, does anyone have anything interesting to say about them?
What did their brainstorming sessions look like? What was their goal? How many different spots did they develop for the different geographical areas of WA? What was the main unspoken subtext permeating the entire ad campaign?
I think I saw one ad, thanks to not owning a network-receiving television set in our household.
But, you gotta hand it to them:
National street and telephone polls:
93% of americans favor GMO labels.
WA initial support for the initiative:
~70%?
Final Outcome?
Congratulations, Publicis Group!
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So the Grocery Manufacturer's Association (meaning Monsanto, DuPont, BASF, Pepsi, Nabisco etc etc) made their statement about the seemingly impending defeat of I522:
Because a 50-state patchwork of GMO labeling laws would be confusing and costly to consumers, GMA will advocate for a federal solution that will protect consumers by ensuring that the FDA, America's leading food safety authority, sets national standards for the safety and labeling of products made with GMO ingredients.
AWESOME! Why pay all this cash at the state level to defeat any GMO labeling initiatives when you can go directly to the FDA and get them to do it!
And why on earth would the FDA do this? Silly question:
between that position and his current FDA position, Mr. Taylor was employed by Monsanto as Vice President of Public Policy.
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I agree, Carter was a stand-up guy. And I think Christie will be a great president in the same vein, although with more economic savvy.
In what way do you think Carter missed the mark with his economic policies?
It was before my time, and this assertion seems to have established itself as an oft-repeated meme, but I've never had anyone who repeats it give technical details as to how exactly Carter was so incompetent.
And regarding his stand-uppedness, wasn't his support for Suharto unwavering during that dictator's brutal oppression and murder of Indonesians?
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hey i was just foolin' around. people including me keep talking about the same shit in the same way like forevers so i kinda go nuts sometimes.
but yeah, i'd kinda go with jimmy c too. good ol' jc. omg.
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Why do Republicans hate Chris Christie so much?
are you seriously asking?
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Which direction? Humor? Laughter is the best medicine, and we definitely need a lot of medicine.
I voted for Obama, and he had done plenty to disappoint...I can't defend some of the things he has done. Yes he has done some good things too.
The problem is this for anyone: who is going to replace him? The truth is that people don't get elected president by telling the truth. We don't want the truth, because the truth often sucks. Not that lying is justified, but if you run a campaign based on truth, and your opponent rides a shit-tsunami of lies and pukes rainbows, you will lose.
Who was the last really "honest" president?
jeez, now you've really gone over the edge.
how can you look uli in the eye tonight, as you read him his bedtime story?
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Oly, is that really the direction you want to go, both as a citizen and as a father?
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I have nothing against fairweather's call for consistency.
i hope his call is based on principles, not party lines.
every US president violates law, both domestic and international.
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Come on Jim, answer the man.
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And so the wheel turns. Ever since Nixon... investigate, revile, mock, impeach, bitch endlessly.
Let's just fix what's broken as we can (the web site, people's canceled policies) and move on. If Barry-care ends up being a lot more expensive for voters, to the extent it is unacceptable, than they can vote a change in a few years and try to roll the shit back. Until then, give the "smart voters" what they asked for. :-)
well said.
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At a minimum: Repeal Obamacare. Censure the president.
interesting notion. i can certainly see someone having this opinion.
did you ever see the need for censure during the bush presidency?
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Voters are smart. They knew what they would be getting. :-)
Yes. Turns out they prefer a curious combination of Jimmy Carter (economic incompetence), Woodrow Wilson (arrogance and intoxication with power), and Richard Nixon (lies, paranoia).
what should we do?
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Just not sure how you can call his latest whopper a "misstep." Stunning.
what is your end-game here? is it simply to vent?
will you be lobbying for impeachment proceedings?
let's plan strategy on my yacht. we can even discuss vaccines.
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oh man, and we were doing so good. i even stepped to your defense in this thread!
and again, not sure what you're going on about with vaccines and government conspiracies.
i think you've become overly sensitive here, expecting an attack from all quarters. understandable, given the nature of online communications i suppose.
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explanation please.
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(my reply was @jmace)
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blah blah blah. quit being so partisan. this is about obama and his mis-step.
supposedly he was counseled against making this proclamation in the first place, but, well, he had a fever. More cowbell!
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a wonderful trick it is, to make someone think, that their thoughts and beliefs are their own.
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Here at Cascadeclimbers.com, opposition to I522 was based on a thorough understanding of science.
I 522 Breaking News
in Spray
Posted · Edited by Kimmo
hmmm, interesting how different people can interpret the same events differently, yes?