JGowans

No, the police have a zero tolerance policy against throwing things at the police. The Longshoremen did not throw anything at the police. I'd also hazard a guess that the dude who was shot 3 times in the back was probably not in the act of throwing objects at them either. He most likely was trying to protect himself from being shot in the face like that crazy looking chick who could probably take on the entire Oakland PD.

As I noted before, I don't condone violence. So, no, 2 wrongs do not make a right. I just simply stated that it's hard to know what to do when your government is changing the rules and flaunting laws to suit themselves. Where once there were clearly defined boundaries of acceptable behavior of which free speech was one, it would now appear that the government is enforcing a policy of zero tolerance to protestations. Where's the outlet for being heard and having one's opinion respected? It wasn't enough that millions of people around the world protested before the war began and Bush derided those efforts as not worthy of taking seriously. Now, they are being taken seriously but in a different way...they're being stamped out before they can really begin. In this particular incident, even the longshoremen were shot. Maybe Bush was getting revenge on them for striking eh?

You do have a point Trask with respect to Civil Disobedience. I can't condone criminal behavior. However, with our own government flaunting the laws of the U.N. in pursuit of their own agenda as well as changing the laws domestically to suit themselves and limit our freedom, it's little wonder that people feel driven to commit criminal acts when all they're doing is following the lead set by G.W. and the like.

I would suggest that this dude was probably trying to run away and got shot anyway. That violence would appear to be at the hands of the cops. Not only was he shot three times with these weapons, but he was shot in the back three times. This means, in short, that he was running away from the police. This means he was no threat whatsoever to armored cops. He was heading away from them when they fired those slugs into his retreating back. "Police moved aggressively against crowds because some people threw rocks and big iron bolts at officers," said Deputy Police Chief Patrick Haw. It is difficult to 'move aggressively' when your back is turned. Along with the protesters, a number of longshoremen working the docks were hit by errant shots coming from the Oakland Police. "I was standing as far back as I could," said longshoremen Kevin Wilson in the story below. "It was very scary. All of that force wasn't necessary." Trent Willis, a business agent for the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, said, "They shot my guys. The cops had no reason to open up on them." Note the actual ammo used and the instructions on the ammo. I wonder if the cops actually bother to read things like instructions? Probably not..."Holy shit! Those fuckers are walking in unison. I've heard about these kinds of people. They're called marchers or something. Quick, shoot to kill! Aim for the head and neck of that skinny chick that weighs probably less than the dougnuts I ate this morning. She's a fesity bitch. Shoot her!!! Quick, get that fucker running away. He may come back with WMD. We can't have that!!! Liberate his fat ass."

Thanks. Is there any particular that you swear by. Also, is it really a big difference in dry v. non-dry?

eh?

Whatever happened to San Juan Salsa's Afterburner flavor? I can only find Medium, Hot or Traditional. Can't get Afterburner anywhere...corn tortilla chips are the preferred transporters of said salsa.

Is there such a thing? I'd like a rope that I can use for anything...rock, alpine, and glacier. Is there such a thing? I'd like to get a good 60m dry rope but that seems like too much weight for 2 or 3 folks on glacier travel. So, what do you recommend for my first rope, and do you know of any good deals? Bear in mind that most use for now will be sport routes and glacier travel. Thanks in advance for the advice.

Do you think it's make-up? Yeah, you're probably right. They've doctored the picture in some way. Hmmm, they make it look pretty realistic. Somebody there's got some good Photoshop skills.

if you dare to protest the war. http://www.truthout.org/index.htm

I guess I'm beating a dead horse or whatever other metaphor you wish to employ, but the latest from MSNBC says that test indicate that the barrels do in fact contain only pesticide. Additionally, it would seem that reports of the rockets containing weapons grade warheads cannot be confirmed. “I’VE SEEN NOTHING in official reports that would corroborate that,” Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal told reporters at the Pentagon. He was referring to news reports Monday that Marines had found rockets, possibly packed with sarin and a mustard agent, at a warehouse outside Baghdad. So, right now, I'll sit here like a smug little git and laugh defiantly at all you right-wing war mongerers who can't see past the end of a rifle scope. I imagine soon though that you'll have your chance to sit there and say "I told you so" but until then....adios. http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0cv=CB10

Umm, I'm not sure that name-calling can be categorized as being violent nor do I recognize the correlation between me calling you numb-nuts and violent anti-war demonstrations. So, I suppose I don't have a comment for that one. I would agree that violent anti-war demonstrations are idiotic though. Does this mean that we're going to invade, whoops, I mean liberate Russia next? Btw, no proof exists (that I know of at least) that Iraq sold weapons to terrorists or sponsored terrorism. There were a couple of forged documents but that's the extent of it as far as I know. Am I missing something? This is a tough one. I really do feel terrible for those poor people, but who are we to judge the rest of the world and assert our morals and ideals? As for Israel, I'm not going say too much other than they continue to instigate and escalate much of the region's woes. Again, no proof exists that Iraq sponsors terrorism. Just to clarify your stance, are you saying that only the U.S. should be allowed to produce WMD and that any other country that produces WMD should be invaded, er, liberated? Any credbility that the U.N. may have had was completely eradicated the day the U.S. & Britain set foot in Iraq. That organization has been rendered irrelevant by these 2 countries ignoring the opinion and will of the democratized world and doing whatever the fuck they want. Secondary motives might possibly be A rich nation is a dangerous nation. Is that the thought process here? A poor country can be more readily manipulated by having carrots dangled in front of it? We don't need to occupy anything to cotrol it right? That's the name of the game...control and contain. Maintain the veneer that these countries control their own destiny to pacify the masses but behind the scenes manipulate them as you see fit.

On the other hand, if the U.S. controls the oil wells, it's therefore part of OPEC and thus the laws of supply and demand don't apply. When you are a cartel, you control the supply and pricing. Supply and demand only works in an open market. Got any other "justification"?

Does that mean it's also justified to topple the governments of China, N. Korea, Cuba, and all Arab nations in the name of liberation from oppression? Where does this end? Is the lesson to be learned "If we don't agree with you, consider yourself fucked and prepare for liberation muthafucka."?

Are we talking about the same thing here? 'Cos this is what I'm talking about... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030407/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_war_wmd_030407175243

How the do you know it's not all about oil? Do you have some inside track that the rest of us don't? Let me guess, you're his daughter's "pharmacist" right? The two of you stay up late till the wee small hours popping prescription drugs talking about the war and how it's oh so not about oil but rather the vanquishing of evil, right? Am I against liberation? Let me think long and hard about that one. If the U.S. were to invade Canada and "liberate" those poor desperate souls from the oppressive Canadian socialist government, I think I'd be against that. If you were to refer to let's say the allied forces liberating France from German occupation in WWII, then I'd support that. That in my mind constitutes liberation. Uni-lateral invasion of soverign nations however fucked up their governing structure is perceived to be does not connote "liberation" for me. Would pulling out troops completely fuck the people of Iraq? Hmm, talk about self-fulfilling prophecies. Yes, pulling them out now would undoubtedly fuck them up. However, don't you think putting them there in the first place kind of fucked the people of Iraq first of all? That's akin to England saying that if they left N. Ireland, the protestants would be fucked. Of course they would! But if the English hadn't have gone there in the first place, there wouldn't be all the strife there is today. Let's not kid ourselves. The U.S. & Britain created the situation there is today. To suggest that we're in there liberating folks like some fucking band of merry freedom fighters pitting the forces of good against evil is bullshit. There are plots, sub-plots, agendas hidden and not, and hush-hush business deals all consumated by the king-makers picking a puppet to put in place to give a nod and a wink and a swish of a pen auctioning off the wealth of a nation with their culture, and dignity not far behind. Spray on numb nuts.

That's fair enough. I haven't ever said that the U.S. sucked though. I think the current administration sucks and this war sucks but not the country. In any case, if you punched me, I'd be forced to smack you so hard, you'd have to stick a tooth brush up your arse to brush your teeth. I think you'd find that after the initial shock wave, you'd be in for the fight of your life. I don't back down from shit. Cool. I'll remember that...I'd want you in my corner if I ever got in a spot of bother.

That's fair enough. I haven't ever said that the U.S. sucked though. I think the current administration sucks and this war sucks but not the country. In any case, if you punched me, I'd be forced to smack you so hard, you'd have to stick a tooth brush up your arse to brush your teeth.

The fact that I'm living here says it all really. Yes, my country is fucked up but what country isn't? I may as well go to a fucked up country where I can make some decent cash though. Still, I wouldn't go so far as to call Scotland a shit-hole. Well worth seeing. If you weren't such a conservative neanderthal, I'd hook you up with places to stay, girls to cook for you, and sheep to shag

Oh, it's real tough finding ways to discredit America. Just wanna point out that even though I'm a foreign bastard, I'm definitely NOT anti-American. I'm honestly very grateful to have the chance to live here. However, that doesn't negate the fact that I think this war is fucked up food and bush & his cronies are a bunch of retarded and stale wankstains.

that's better! wouldn't want you conservatives bickering among yourselves. you need all the brain power you can muster to launch insults at anti-war pansies like me.

Idiots like you make me puke. If you honestly believe this then you are dumber than I thought. It is, however, a nice catch phrase, and a neat way to blame the US for everything. Just like the chickenshits like France, Germany, etc, etc, etc. call me crazy, but i think this was supposed to be a sarcastic remark aimed at us liberals as opposed to him actually suggesting that CIA was planting these missiles. am i missing the joke here?

Here we go... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030407/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_war_wmd_030407175243

Weird. I just read it on Yahoo! and now it seems that they've pulled the story. I can't find it now. I'll keep digging. I was wondering if you were referring to the missles recently found. I noticed CNN currently has the story only as a Breaking News headline with other info, suggesting more tests are ongoing and preliminary tests were positive. No, the yahoo sotry specifically talked about the possible chemical site with the drums of chemicals that they'd discovered. it then explained that it was confirmed to be nothing more than pesticide and then had a few quotes talking about the embarrassing declaration which proved to be nothing at all. I wonder why Yahoo! pulled it?

Weird. I just read it on Yahoo! and now it seems that they've pulled the story. I can't find it now. I'll keep digging.