Anon

Never met a semi-decent climber who HATES a GriGri! Been dropped on ATC's though. But VW works really hard to try to make sure they spend the absolute minimum possible to keep the gym open. Too bad there is even less competition now. Friendly staff, routes, kids programs is not to the owner(s)' credit but rather to hard working people who want to be involved. That wouldn't go away with any ownership.

KubeK, where are you from?

I believe that deep inside it is about not being able to keep up with the speed of ability development in climbing. And the subsequent desire to hold things up, or eliminate altogether to preserve the cheast-beating status quo. Anomalies are bound to happen and a crack or two will be bolted, it is not a norm. New housing and other development is. That's the real danger. The very real potential of commericialization of "wilderness" is. So who opted for a condo instead of a house in suburbs? Arizona thing? Well, if climbers didn't threatened each other with death, nobody would've noticed a thing. It has been my experience that majority (not all!!!) anti-bolters are shitty climbers. And if climbing is all about a personal experience - it is for me - then hell, skip the bolts, solo, spray about it. I haven't seen much of it though, just from very accomplished and renowned climbers, most of them not anti-bolt "nazzi"'s. Flame on

Thought this was relevant ListServ Subscribers Change a Light Bulb Question: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 1,331 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed. 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers. 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb. 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs. 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here. 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.