johnny

Interesting, Matt, without saying a word you have sparked another thought..... There is a distinct difference here (NC) than back in Washington. Many routes are rated without taking into consideration the first few feet. At Moore's Wall there is a route named Vascular Disaster (VD for short) It is a solid .11b 1 pitch line with a nastily overhanging 12b boulder problem start (10 feet or so)with the first pro about 30 feet off the deck. In Leavenworth language this line would likely be rated .12+ R/X but aside from mentioning the bouldery start it is simply 11b in the guidbook. There is a .9 sport route in Sauertown that involves a 20 foot 5.8 traverse 15 feet over broken ground to access the first bolt. Its that or pull the evil 12+ overhang in a direct start. The traverse scared me much worse than the big roof 80+ feet over the steeply downsloping deck. Most of the sport routes here are way undrbolted from a Vantage or Exit 38 standard. Interesting... Seems we all have our comfort levels when it comes to runouts/soloing. I'm a wimp, I just bring this up to highlight different ethics and how they manifest themselves

Now Chucky, don't go gettin' a big ol' swelled up head over this OK? Save that for the ladies

So, let me see if I have this right; If Caveman is to Dan Larson what RURP is to lameass, oops, Lambone and our new friend Alison is to Dru what Tacoma is to Chaminox and Mikeadam is to the Tidybowl man what Scott'teryx is to a well rolled joint, then does Dan Larson still suck? Or is Caveman really that flexible?????? Hmmmmmmmmmm.............. Makes you think don't it? I always did envy my dog, always figured I would never have to leave the house if I could do that

Alison, you didn't mess nuttin' up, I was just being sarcastic, besides, doesn't my visual conjure up more drama?? You guys may be right, it is best not to fall at all but then again, Alison's and others' stories, while quite ugly and very possible, are not really a valid data set. The population is way too small. Statistically speaking, it is still way more dangerous to drive to the crag than it is to climb, whether you practice falling or not. I have found a comprimise of sorts....There is this short (50feet)11.a that is nicely overhanging, devoid of serious projections and protected by a couple of newer bolts as well as a few small gear placements. I've never toproped that grade without resting so my chances of cruising it are not good....Ive struggled up a couple of 11.c-d's here but it definately was not pretty. This ain't exactly a new idea but I guess you could call it my very first project. On another tangent, what is it that makes a 35 year old, brand new stepdad get fixated on things like this? I'vee been monkeying around in mountains all my life and waited till now to advance my technical skills????

OK, I started this thread to get some ideas on how to unf$#ck my mind when above a piece of gear I was not sure of. At first it all sounded good, and I had hope, felt understanding and compassion from the masses. Now all I can see is Alison laying in the dirt with her feet all mangled up with blood and caked dust everywhere. Nice Really Alison, no disrespect, and I wish you all the luck in a solid recovery. And the moral of this story is only climb roofs and overhangs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote: 12. Do you always stay on established trails at the climbing area? a. yes b. no13. Do you pick up trash at the climbing area? a. always b. sometimes c. never Lambchop,I was thinking that these questions could be rephrased to avoid some bias from people answering what they think they should answer to be politically correct or to make themselves feel more ecoconcious. Instead of "Do you stay" or "Do you pick up" perhaps it could read "Have you ever" Leaves some of the personal interpretation out of the answer. A small thing but..... Oh, and Chuck, try to remember that you said yourself that you were giving a SUGGESTION. Don't start to cry when your utterances are not taken as gospel. We are all losers here in this big bad world, thats why we mess about on this BB!!!!! Another hug??

Does Iggy Pop count?? Hey Dru, is Seattle in Canada? Many people down here seem to think so, or if they know where it really is they figure it may as well be. Pope, Sounds all well and good to have the fighting spirit and all, and I agree to a point. I work my ass off when I climb, I constantly push myself beyond what I percieve as my limits. Doesn't it make sense though, since you WILL eventually fall to have some idea how to do it properly, improve your chances of pulling it off somehwhat calmly instead of completely freaked and tense as hell? I know I usually fall better when I ski if I have a bit of a buzz on (OK maybe I just fall more.....) but really I am just more relaxed while spinning ass over teakettle in the snow. This is all theory of course since I have to wait till Friday at Moore's to tie in again........Thank you all for the advice. And Chuck, honey, please don't be mad at me, I never joined the military because they really don't want someone like me who questions everything that everyone says. Group hug???? Peppermint tea??

Just had to add this thought.....A buddy here told me to break every long problem down into bits. A boulder problem to a rest, then focus on the next one. (He boulders a lot, who doesn't in NC?????) Pull like hell through the section you are on, then find a rest and place gear. It has helped me so far.....

Welcome to the south indeed!! 'Tis a brave new world here 'tis, only hope I survive it!! Bet I can do more pullups now than I could when I moved out here!!!!!!!!!!!!

What freaks me out here, NC that is(this is another mindf%$ck)is that almost all the routes 5.9 and harder involve bulges, overhangs or scary roofs of some sort. Even the good 5.7-8 routes pull nastily intimidating roofs that may be straightforward(i.e. jugs) yet quite burly. Mindf$#K. It is safer to fall on overhanging bits than on slabs but the brain suffers!!! Speaking of the New: Anyone have any "must do's" in theGorge that I need to find????

No, Bronco, I don't think he has....That seems to be the best thing to get over falling, fall in a somewhat controlled situation and get used to it. Yeah, some wear on your gear, but that will happen anyway and gear is replaceable. Your body after a fall on something (a TCU for instance) you have never really tested and did not place as good as you could have is not. This guy I am climbing with now keeps wanting to just go out and get "whipper practice" is not far from reality. Climb up, place gear on a route that accepts it easily and is near your limit, and fall. Maybe I make this all too complicated??? Will, I saw an ad for the "Warrior Way" thing a while ago. Sounds cool but a bit scammy, Guy has balls, large balls and is opinionated as well. Just add capitalism and he makes a living telling others what they could have gained from others just by asking. No slam to him, but isn't America great?????? P.S. someone mentioned the New River. I am going with some of the guys I met here in a couple weeks for 3-4 days. It looks awsome! Thats part of why I am working so hard right now, I want to kick ass when I get there!!!!!!!

I have ben getting on the rock quite a bit lately since getting settled out here in NC and meeting some people from the gear shop I am working in right now and I seem to have found a new hurdle to overcome. I can't fall!! No, I have not found a solution to gravity, I am just having a serious problem with falling on traditional gear. I either don't lead difficult pitches or can't just commit to the moves when I am above what looks like a good placement. Maybe I have been brainwashed by all the bolted stuff I did in Washington? I feel way better going for it when above a bolt. Anybody out there have any little mindf&%ks that have worked for them? There is such a strong trad ethic out here in NC (which I really like) that all the super cool lines require gear. Maybe I am just a wanker afterall, or maybe I need to start being a wake and bake again like years past,............ I thought my autosig was funny, but it was only the beginning of a small obsession!!!!!

How do you guys see when a guest tries to reply? I see them listed as present and lurking but what am I missing??? As to why they just lurk, Was it Woody Allen who said he "would never belong to any organization that would have me as a member"

Someone said Rumplemints......That almost always wins in my book!! Just the smell makes my smile. Boxed wine without the box packs along pretty well too and you can blow it up with air when empty and use it for a pillow when you pass out. Although, after finishing off a sack of that shit you will likely not care if you have a pillow or not. Hmmmmmmmmmm.......

I have a few pieces that are getting pretty sticky. Suppose I should quit packing them with my pb&j sammies when I go out..... I have read about working them in white gas (being careful of the sling) then soapy water to get the gas out then a good rinse. Using something dry like bike chain lube seems a good idea when they are dry. Any opinions on this from the peanut gallery??

yikes! I'm with DP and the rest. Where's the helicopter???? Hey, anyone heard frome rpertore? Didn't he start this thead?????

I have been wondering some of the same things myself. My take on the runners, etc. is that if you doubt them in any way, replace them. If they are only questionable, then use them for rappel anchors, toprope backups, tying your kayak to your roof, stuff that won't involve shockloading. Hardware is another story. I have not taken enough serious falls on my gear yet but I am guessing that a visual inspection with a thourough cleaning would reveal any reasons to retire nuts, cams and biners. Some of my gear was inherited from an unknown source (long story) so I am not sure how much abuse a few of my biners and cams have been subject too. I hope I am not too far off in relying on them after they pass a good checkout???? I have an old (10 years or so) 11mm rope my dad gave me a while back that I still use for a toprope sometimes. It is in good shape and has never taken a serious fall, he just retired it from lead use after it was a couple years old. Am I way off in relying on that beefy old thing for this purpose? Oh yeah, before I forget, Hello there Mikeadam sweetie, how are you??? I miss ya buddy my depreciated $.02

Will, You ROCK! Good karma and scentless farts to you and yours.......

I have on several occasions stuck my shell's hood into my paddle-end and held onto the bottom edges to grab a free ride while kayaking...and my eyes are capable of incredibly malevelant stares. Does that count Trask?????

Throughout all my last comments I forgot to add TRASK IS A WANKER!!!!!!!

Thanks Will , I knew you had nothing better to do! I get the wider lobes/force distribution part, that makes sense. Also we (me and Alan) pretty much came to the same conclusion about point of contact to axle distance. (both of us have played on see-saws recently!) Whats up with the curvature thing? Intuitively, round would seem better as it would appear to apply more consistant force at different levels of expansion. What about radius affecting the curve? Is it directly related to contact/axle distance? Shit, this is getting intense, maybe I should go back to school... Anyone know of any sites that have relatively company-line free info on such topics? Oh, BTW, sorry for getting so technical so early, maybe y'all should just switch to EST so we could be in sync?????

No, I don't have a paper due, I got my BS in bs about 8 years ago..... but I do tend to forget that it is 11:30 from where I sit so I have been up for quite a while now (cleaned the kitchen, took the kids to school, went through yesterdays gear, took a shit, what have you done so far ) Interesting about the cam angles, suppose it would make a difference, especially the distance from the axle or fulcrum, whatever you call it........How come I have to be a pointdexter to think about such shit? would it make you feel better that I once used a bent bong stem (with bowl of course) to protect a sketchy boulder problem?????? Me and Alan; within 5 pounds. Still don't know what a blowboater is!!!!!

and what's a blowboater?? should I be annoyed?? Perhaps I should try another thread title or maybe an entirely new bb????

huh???

Jeez, for once I have an honest question and what do I get?? Huh?? Nuttin', absolutely nuttin'. Fine then, guess I'll just go and lever off a few more hunks of rock with my oversize cams. C'mon people, I know at least Will and Dru have an opinion on this one???????