mattp

Yes. It has had numerous winter ascents and is listed in Nelson's "select climbs" book as a winter outing (he also says something to the effect of "not worth it in Summer," and I disagree with that, 'cause in my book Mt. Index is just plain cool any time).

You'll find English Ivy at lots of local nurseries, too. I have not checked for himalaya blackberry.

Is this more sad, comical, or infuriating? Sad was that I didn't notice any commentators or the Dem response call him on it. That opening section was very carefully written to convey that impression or at least reaffirm that impression among the "believers" without actually saying it, so maybe they are afraid of the denials they'd get in response, but I hate to see the neocons get a free pass on this issue over and over again for - what - going on five years?

Don't overlook the possibility of buying a used ice tool at a great savings. You'll pay a premium for whatever folks are thinking is the shizzle right now, but just about any ice too with a hammer head will be sufficient to hammer in a picket once in a while, scratch you way over a bergschrund, or lean on in an icy gully somewhere.

Where he really told a whopper was when he said we have "relentlessly" sealed off the border so terrorists can't get into Iraq. That and when he continued to try to link Iraq and 911, and ...

After a week long trip in the Coast Range (Don't tell Dru I called it that) I was hiking out with my friend Mike, in the rain. No story really; the log was reeeely slippery and we didn't want to take the plunge so we belly crawled instead of running for it. About five miles of hiking through swamps followed, and an extra giant grizzly was waiting for us at the car. Fortunately we didn't have to shake hands with Mr. Big.

What are you talking about there, JayB. Has ANYBODY on this board ever said they supported Hamas? You sound like George "they are for us or aginst us" Bush here. Just because someone thinks that Isreali and US policies have been messed up, or that we think it appears that Hamas was legitimately elected, doesn't mean we're all fans of Hamas.

Jay, have we not said (along with the Israeli's) that we will not talk to them because they are a terrorist organization? Might we undermine the formation or function of their government if we stick to this position? Did we similarly refuse to talk to Likud because they were dedicated to the destruction of any Palestinian state?

You must not believe in FREEDOM. Clearly there is quite a difference.

You shoulda been there when Pubclub went to exit 32.

Olyclimber should put the winners in a special "CC.COM News" thread or something else to display them on the front page for a while.

Wedgewood. The new Ballard. Next time, we'll see if we can get Catbirdseat to play his horn at a special Fiddler's Inn open mike night.

I always bring this up in these discussions, and have been at times criticized for saying so, but don't assume you HAVE to approach this climb from White River so you can make a loop out of it. If you have substantial mountaineering experience and are comfortable descending steep snow and moderate ice, it is reasonable to climb up and back down Liberty Ridge and, if this is your plan, an approach via Ipsut Creek is probably shorter than starting at White River. (I'd argue that if you don't have substantial experience or are not comfortable downclimbing steep snow and moderate ice you have no business on Liberty Ridge in the first place, but we've been through all that before.) Here's an old thread that includes discussion of this topic: 2003 thread

Compared to the Canadian Crumblies, rockfall is trivial on Liberty Ridge. However, there are frequent accidents due to falling objects, though chunks of ice I think are probably more common than rockfall.

Jay, are you saying that society is NOT to blame for the fact that I keep getting fatter and weaker every year? I'd like to than ChucK for calling a spade a spade here.

A sad attempt to repaint history there, ChucK. Didn't you distinctly say last night that you LOVE GWB?

Right on. Get some poles and you can come out and flail - errr I mean rip it up - with the rest of us.

Admit it. You said you worship the ground he walks on and admire him for his decisive leadership.

May is often known for unconsolidated snow but it is popular I think because there is less exposed rock on the route then and less ice climbing. Check with the rangers, but I bet the success rate is highest in early July. You will want a standard ice axe for most of the climb. I used a second tool only for maybe 500 feet or so out of about 5,000 feet of climbing where you want an axe for a possible self arrest in the event of a slip. At the schrund, the leader can use the two “second” tools if they need to. I don’t think anyone uses pins on that route, and I doubt many carry a deadman. A picket can be buried “deadman style” if you need an anchor in softer snow. Don’t know about the comparison, but the approach is done by some but probably not most parties in one day to Thumb Rock and one day back to base, but I think your 3-4 day timeframe is far more common. As I noted there is 5,000 feet of climbing on steep-ish terrain but only several hundred feet that anybody would call technical and really only a short bit that is steep (maybe a 40 foot section right out of camp, and another 75 feet at the top?). You can certainly rent gear in Seattle - Feathered Friends or REI, I think. ‘Don’t know about closer rentals.

Did you swallow that line about how we had effectively sealed the borders to prevent terrorists from entering Iraq?

I din't want to embarass you by reporting that you admitted to being a Boarder, Mr. Trog. Next time I'll just spell it out.

If you don't use butter, you get to join the rapture.

Depending on what we learn about problems with earlier production runs, I will very likely continue to use my older ones. They have worked very well for me in "pull-testing."

It comes with a Dick Cheney signataure edition popcorn popper.

Skiing, climbing and politics offered up plenty of topics for discussion. ChucK's bouldering wall, it turns out, has become the smoking area outside the Wedgewood Ale House. Archenemy brought a dead Snaffle. ChucK mades his first 2006 appearance. Dougiefresh put some faces to avatars. DoubleE was recruting skiers. GaryYngve and Jens made a plan. Jim and I talked about the Coast Mountains. Ketch brought news from Orcas Island. Klenke said that GW has been doing right by the Sunni's in Iraq, and ToTheTop said that running up and down Mt. Rainer isn't really climbing. We all admired the photos of Pax in the new Whitelaw guidebook and gave GWB and "A" for effort.