NRS Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hello Everybody! After some lurking, I've decided to utilize the full potential of the PNW climbing collective knowledge. I have an adventure race this coming June, and one required skill is using ascenders. We'll have two ascenders with individual foot loops. I've taken a lesson to get a handle on the equipment, but was wondering if anyone more experienced in the art could offer some hints to make the process a little more efficient. I know this is vague, but maybe someone has a trick they're willing to share. Thanks! nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 will it be free hanging or less-than-vertical slab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRS Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 I can't be sure, maybe both. They're keeping a lot of the details secret before the race. I'm heard it can get tricky with a slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Set the ascenders up so they are at your chest to chin. Move them about 1 foot each time and get a rythm going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 if it is less than vertical, go left-right-left-right. if it is overhanging then you'll set up both feet to push you up at the same time, then sit, then feet... the 'frog' method. now, how you set it up to allow you to switch back and forth between methods is up to you and what gear you've got available. play around and try stuff for practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRS Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 Thanks for the advice! The gym my team went to for training had us working with one ascender with foot loop, and a gri-gri attached at our belay loop. It was awkward as hell, and thankfully will NOT be the set-up for the race. I know we'll be given two ascenders with foot loops for each, and they expect us to tie both ascenders into our harness. I'm not sure how I would do anything other than the above mentioned left-right-left-right method. I guess we'll just have to see what we come up with after about a day and a half of no sleep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 if one of the footloops is big enough for both feet, you can still do the frog... hopfully you can figure a way to adjust the lengths of things 'on-the-fly' so the non-foot ascender can be sinched down close to your harness. and then lengthened again for l-r-l-r look here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRS Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 I hadn't thought converting the system to a frog style for free hanging portions. We'll see what exactly they give us...and whether or not they'll allow us to fuss with the system at all. My guess is we'll be using static lines, none of which will be set-up over sharp edges. Which means we'll be avoiding some of the controversial topics in that thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 (edited) There are at least two adventure racer types who post regularly on this board. You should ask advice from both AR_Guy and Tvashtarkatena. Edited May 28, 2008 by catbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 if one of the footloops is big enough for both feet, you can still do the frog... hopfully you can figure a way to adjust the lengths of things 'on-the-fly' so the non-foot ascender can be sinched down close to your harness. and then lengthened again for l-r-l-r look here or you can just hang two aiders off one jumar (your bottom jumar) to achieve the froggy which i think is the same as TEXAS style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR_Guy Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 While I enjoy adventure racing I've yet to do a race were I had to jug / jumar (but rapping off a 10 story parking garage in downtown PDX was pretty cool). One of these days, I'll do an multi-day that has it..... What I would suggest is that you spend some time practicing this skill in a safe, controlled environment prior to race day (perhaps with a TR as a back up). If you can find time, I'd suggest several seperate sessions with your whole team. I say this as during the noted PDX race (Wicked Urban, 2005), I watched someone try and do their first ever rap - they took FOREVER (15-20 minutes) since they were scared out of their mind. Once I was hooked up, I was down in under 2 minutes (the time I spent rapping off the bridge at Exit 38 paid off) - what a fun experience. If you can get through the ropes quick, while other teams take forever, you can make easy time on the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRS Posted May 29, 2008 Author Share Posted May 29, 2008 Thanks for the perspective. Unfortunately, no one on my team has the right equipment to practice on our own, so our one training session will have to do. I hear you on the rappel! That's one section we won't have an issue with. We were considering winging the ropes section without any practice (I'm glad we didn't), but I can't imagine doing a *first ever* rap during a race. I'm currently located in Boston, but will be back in the area for a couple months this summer. Have you heard of any good races during July or August? I've checked some calendars, but I'm sure I haven't found everything. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR_Guy Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 July 19th-20th Wicked makes it return as part of the Gorge Games - Hood River, Or is the start / finish. 24 Hour and a 6-12 hour sprint. http://www.wickedar.com/ July 26th - 6 Degrees of Navigation. Last year was a fun course. Ellensburg area. Check out via the Cascade Orienteering web site. http://www.cascadeoc.org/ July 30th - Beast #4 in Seattle http://www.beastrace.com/ August 9th-10th: Big Blue Oakridge 24 Hour, Oakridge, Oregon. http://www.bigblueadventure.com/ August 27th: Beast #5, Federal Way As far as practicing, I suggest checking out your local climbing gym / club / organization and see if you can hire an instructor who could also provide the gear. When I needed to learn to rap, I hit the local gym and ponied up for some one on one instruction. This included anchor building so I could then subsequently head out on my own to Exit 38 and work my way up to the free raps off the bridge there. This was money well spent. I would guess if you have a jumar and with the comment about being awake for a day and a half, you're looking at a multi-day race. Given the typical cost, a couple ascenders and some static rope to practice on shouldn't be all that expensive. (I'm assuming you know how to rig an anchor and have basic belaying skills for the below - if not, ignore). A quick check at the Evil Empire (REI) shows static rope for 72 cents a foot. A pair of ascenders can be had for about $130. So, for about 225 bones in gear (some webbing for the foot loops and a few extra locker 'biners), you could set up with enough stuff to practice. You probably already have the ATC's, harnesses and hardware to do the top rope with. All you would need to do is find an appropriate location to practice on. Split 4 ways, it's not a lot, especially considering what you probably spent on the race entry, mountain bike, lighting system, kayak gear, yadda, yadda, yadda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRS Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Your guess is right. We're doing Untamed New England. You're also correct that the cost to get all that stuff wouldn't be much compared to the total gear cost... Unfortunately, our coed four person team suffered some attrition, and now we just have a two man crew. Adding to that, we're both in dental school, so just getting the funding for the most basic stuff was a bit of a stretch. I'm just lucky I can't ever get sick of PB&J. If that wasn't enough, neither of us has enough training to rig an anchor even if we had a car to get us somewhere we could practice. Thanks for the race info. I am tentatively planning on doing the BEAST #4 race using their lotto system, and hope to find a couple people to do the Wicked race with. We'll see what happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR_Guy Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Wicked allows for solo racers if you can't find anyone to race with. Be warned that Shane Gibson, the director, likes to make a tough course - he'll send you up every darn hill within reach and the courses of his I've run are navigationally challenging, with plenty of opportunities to miss subtle cues. Of course, this means if you're a good navigator and make the right route choice decisions, you can make LOTS of time on the competition. (I'd do that race, but a previous engagement has me booked for that weekend). The Beast Lotto system works well. If you know how to navigate, it's probably not necessary though. Beast lets you run solo (I do). Gear requirements are pretty minimal. Winning times are typically ~2 hours, with last finishers ~4 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropegoat Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 If anyone in the PNW area is looking for a partner for any of the above races, I'd love to get into a few this summer. I don't have a boat, but have climbing/running/biking/moutaineering gear. I'm new to the area, very fit, and have some decent backcountry experience behind me. Also very comfortable with topo map and compass navigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRS Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 Ropegoat, I'd be interested in a partner for some races. That being said, I'm not sure how convenient it would be, given the relative distance we would be from each other... how do you feel about commuting? Maybe some southern Washington training activities? It looks like Wicked is going to be in the Gorge area. If anyone from the more 'northern' reaches of the PNW needs someone to go on death marches/rides with, drop me a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropegoat Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 NRS, check your PMs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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