Recommendations on a 2nd rope

[rswierkos]

I currently have one 10mm 60meter dry rope that I use for everything (glacier climbs, alpine trad and sport). I'm thinking about springing for a second rope in the 8mm range that I can use for both glacier climbs and as a second rope for double-rope rappels on alpine routes. Would a lighter rope like this be a good option for both disciplines? Any recommendations on what has worked for other people? Any advice is appreciated!

 

[high_on_rock]

60 meter, cheap, and dry or double dry.

[catbirdseat]

I currently have one 10mm 60meter dry rope that I use for everything (glacier climbs, alpine trad and sport). I'm thinking about springing for a second rope in the 8mm range that I can use for both glacier climbs and as a second rope for double-rope rappels on alpine routes. Would a lighter rope like this be a good option for both disciplines? Any recommendations on what has worked for other people? Any advice is appreciated!

Rather than getting an 8 mm, which is a twin rope, I suggest getting a 9 mm half rope. Then you'd have the option to lead using half rope technique. Later you could get a mate to the 9 mm, which is what I did, since I didn't have the bread to buy two at the same time.

[Mr_Phil]

Rather than getting an 8 mm, which is a twin rope, I suggest getting a 9 mm half rope.

 

Here's a clue.

[catbirdseat]

Oooo, an 8 mm half rope. Sounds like he can have his cake and eat it too! And on sale, no less.

[rswierkos]

Thanks for the replies. I like the idea of buying one half rope now and a second later when I can afford it. Is it difficult learning to manage the two ropes? Is the belay hard to master?

[high_on_rock]

not hard to master at all, just a little more rope management but not a real problem. sometimes actually keeps the belay from becoming so boring.

Edited March 20, 2007 by high_on_rock

[blueserac]

Using twin ropes can certainly up your skill of rope management and systems rigging. however, it is more likely that you will eventually end up with a rope caddy for all your needs.

 

I often climb on twin 7.5mm lines and love the versatility and added security that they offer. Having the second line makes rapping easy, especially since the length is 60m.

 

Some of the trade offs are increased rope management, the use of the prusik knot or other self-locking knot to effect self rescues or ascent/descent of the line, especially if it is loaded. Rope stretch is often increased with a thin line, and it can be scary ascending a line with a lot of stretch as it rubs over edges.

 

For glacier travel, if you are travelling on a thin line consider what type of constriction device or knot you will use to carry out your self rescue or jugging out of a crevasse. (Might as well consider adapting two person glacial travel too.)

 

Some folks may just take one 60m or 70m <8mm line for moderate routes and then double it up for the fifth class. There is often a ledge to set up a belay within 30 meters; and the rest is a keen ground to move together.

 

I have used a single 10mm-10.5mm line on many routes, just as on rock, and packed along a retrieval line of 5mm in order to retrieve the climbing rope after rappels. Just make sure that at the anchor knode that you have employed a closed loop on the short end of the climbing rope so the system does not completely fail if the retrieval line is interupted. This makes for a pretty simple system and it is a lot easier to cut off sections of the retrieval line for rigging rappels after all the webbbing and accessory cord are used. Just make sure that you use a stuff sack when hucking the retrieval cord or it won't go far.

 

Kit out for the route. On ice I use twins; on easy glaciated routes sometimes a single 8mm; on routes with a lot hard climbing either the twin or single fat rope with retrieval line work well; if there is going to be a lot of rapping, then maybe the twins; if I taking someone that has recently discovered multi-pitch, then maybe the fat and retreival line.

 

Suit your fancy, it will all wind up supporting stuff in the garden, as dog leashes, or hoisting your yaks in the garage.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2007 by blueserac

[slogon]

Been thinking along similar lines to you, but leaning toward a shorter (35m or better yet, 40m) half rope for glacier travel, 4th class running pro, and doubling up for short 5th sections (think Shuksan, some of the rocky Oregon volcanic peaks, Sahale). Could use with a rap cord also. Obviously I'd use a more serious rope for more serious climbs.

 

Looked at some past threads, but my questions: 30m (see Mr. Phil's link) seems kind of short for glacier, say for 3 people, and a little longer (35m or 40m) seems better. Also, I assume there's no problem using a half rope as a twin (clipping through each piece) for 5th class. True?

[blueserac]

Yeah 8mm ropes are awsome, however consider the application of a 35-40m rope in a near worst case scenario of crevasse rescue. The worst case would leave it easy and simple if your buddy got the chop as you could just cut and run. Will the reduction in rope length allow for a drop loop extrication manuevre? That is for two person travel, and re-evaluate this process and assess if you can really do what two people do on the surface but as you on your own. Also, it is a good thing to consider whether you will utilize a mechanical device or friction knot like prusik on the smaller diameter rope.

 

Jumajumalungma, my wife and I use a single 7.5mm rope for pretty much all of our moderate climbing in BC and Washington. We take mountaineer coils [short rope] over the shoulder to take up the extra slack on 4th class and easy fifth class terrain; on the steep steps we just double the rope, so that she ties into both ends and I tie into the middle so that we have 30m between us and we climb as if using two double ropes. On glaciers, we have a little than the middle 20% between us and we coil the rest in mountaineer coils; well actually we give a little more length to compensate for moving as a team of two, and we usually tie figure of eight knots on a bight to act as both friction as they cut through the lip and convenient clip-in points if we need to acend the rope out of the crevasse. We actually use the tails, that is th extra length to do the haul system extrication. Consider the objective and then reverse engineer it.

 

As for moving, one of my bood buddies and I even short roped the Squamish Buttress route in good time using this system.

 

It is suggested, and written in several texts that there should be ~2-3 millimetre diameter difference for ideal prusik useage on your climbing rope. The smaller diameter for the prusik cord, and fatter diameter for rope. I use 5.5 spectra for my prusik cords when using the thin line.

 

It is easier to assess the weight and bulk of camping and support gear, then climbing gear to reduce your overall weight than to cut the mass from the length of your rope.

[blueserac]

Yeah 8mm ropes are awsome, however consider the application of a 35-40m rope in a near worst case scenario of crevasse rescue. The worst case would leave it easy and simple if your buddy got the chop as you could just cut and run. Will the reduction in rope length allow for a drop loop extrication manuevre? That is for two person travel, and re-evaluate this process and assess if you can really do what two people do on the surface but as you on your own. Also, it is a good thing to consider whether you will utilize a mechanical device or friction knot like prusik on the smaller diameter rope.

 

Jumajumalungma, my wife and I use a single 7.5mm rope for pretty much all of our moderate climbing in BC and Washington. We take mountaineer coils [short rope] over the shoulder to take up the extra slack on 4th class and easy fifth class terrain; on the steep steps we just double the rope, so that she ties into both ends and I tie into the middle so that we have 30m between us and we climb as if using two double ropes. On glaciers, we have a little than the middle 20% between us and we coil the rest in mountaineer coils; well actually we give a little more length to compensate for moving as a team of two, and we usually tie figure of eight knots on a bight to act as both friction as they cut through the lip and convenient clip-in points if we need to acend the rope out of the crevasse. We actually use the tails, that is th extra length to do the haul system extrication. Consider the objective and then reverse engineer it.

 

As for moving, one of my bood buddies and I even short roped the Squamish Buttress route in good time using this single rope doubled in half system.

 

It is suggested, and written in several texts that there should be ~2-3 millimetre diameter difference for ideal prusik useage on your climbing rope. The smaller diameter for the prusik cord, and fatter diameter for rope. I use 5.5 spectra for my prusik cords when using the thin line.

 

It is easier to assess the weight and bulk of camping and support gear, then climbing gear to reduce your overall weight than to cut the mass from the length of your rope.

Edited March 22, 2007 by blueserac