ericb Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 (edited) Thanks everyone for the input. I really do appreciate it. I took a look at the time stamps on my photos, and it looks like we got to the wall at 0715, and started the first pitch at around 0830...long story...blame the mexican food. We were at the top of first pitch when the first groups started arriving, and Sampco says the groups ahead were on the third pitch when they got there.....That would mean they were there probably 0930 or 1000 at the earliest? Does this sound right Sampco? Fern I appreciate your thoughts about crowding, and will certainly take them to heart, but I think your comment that it might not have applied in this circumstance is also true. I'm not trying to defend my climbing prowess...I'm a self confessed moderate climber, but I think a discussion of how you can safely increase the efficiencies on a crowded route like this is useful. We got to the top of P3 and waited for the team that passed us at the top of P1 (yes we waited for both leader and follower to pass us at the anchor) to clear out. The leader was just approaching the 5.9 crux when we arrived. Brian lead up, and the leader of the next team behind us arrived as he was just past the crux. This is a big ledge, and rather than setting up a tree belay for his partner further right on the ledge, he waited for me to pull up and start climbing so he could use the fixed piton/gear anchor....all this to belay his partner across class 4 ledges where a body belay could have sufficed. I think it's important to not crowd folks, but it's also important to think outside the box and make the system move as efficiently as possible. My photo at Library ledge is at 3:00, and Sampco says they were taking a break there at 5:30, so it took them 2:30 to climb P6. As far as our speed, from my admittedly self-protectionist standpoint, there's a difference between the statement "it took us 9 hours to climb it" and "we took 9 hours to climb it". We were admittedly climbing near the top end of our abilities, but to say we shouldn't have even been on the route is pretty presumptuous. I guess the question I'm left with is a philisophical question. If I can enjoy a day in the mountains with a good friend, and climb at a pace that both gets me down safely in daylight, and doesn't delay the teams behind me, why would I climb any faster? Sampco - your comment that speed is safety is pretty moot. We were eating Halibut with cream sauce at 8:30, topped of with ice cream at 9:45, and drinking Black Butte Porters in camp by 10:30 all while you fought your way down a pitch black unfamiliar descent. Sounds like judgement played a much bigger role in this fiasco than physical climbing prowess. Edited September 26, 2006 by ericb
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