marylou Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I think the pattern of focusing on beacons and rescue is a result of the american level 1 sort of course. These weekend courses tend to offer just enough snow science to overwhelm the average joe then take them outside to practice pits and rescue scenarios. A new sort of course is emerging focusing on avy avoidance. Are you sure about that? When I took my 2 day Level One, they told us that beacon work is not even a required part of the Level One curriculum. We spent maybe 2 hours tops on it, 18 or so on avoidance, recognizing terrain, pits, block tests, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 The structure of the level one avy safety courses that I have been involved with has been changing over the last several years. Many instructors are spending less time on beacons and more time on navigation, terrain and practical snow work, as well as emphasizing the psychological and group dynamic issues that tend to cause people to traverse dangerous terrain even when they know better. From my point of view, as both a teacher and student of avalanche safety, it makes sense to spend enough time on all the basic topics related to travel in avalanche terrain to let the students get a feeling for the breadth of their ignorance and to introduce them to several of the areas that will need a great deal more study to become reasonably competent at avalanche avoidance, as well as rescue techniques. There is no way anyone will leave any level one course with a clear and complete understanding of avalanche safety. The best you can hope for is to demonstrate a few of the most practical techniques clearly enough that the student will be able to continue to practice them on their own. It is also worth trying to impart a sense of the complexity and subtlety of putting together all the variables that may help predict the chances of a slide. Finally, it is worth putting in enough time on beacons to allow the student to practice on their own, and to get a sense of the limitations of beacon use as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 The structure of the level one avy safety courses that I have been involved with has been changing over the last several years. Many instructors are spending less time on beacons and more time on navigation, terrain and practical snow work, as well as emphasizing the psychological and group dynamic issues that tend to cause people to traverse dangerous terrain even when they know better. From my point of view, as both a teacher and student of avalanche safety, it makes sense to spend enough time on all the basic topics related to travel in avalanche terrain to let the students get a feeling for the breadth of their ignorance and to introduce them to several of the areas that will need a great deal more study to become reasonably competent at avalanche avoidance, as well as rescue techniques. There is no way anyone will leave any level one course with a clear and complete understanding of avalanche safety. The best you can hope for is to demonstrate a few of the most practical techniques clearly enough that the student will be able to continue to practice them on their own. It is also worth trying to impart a sense of the complexity and subtlety of putting together all the variables that may help predict the chances of a slide. Finally, it is worth putting in enough time on beacons to allow the student to practice on their own, and to get a sense of the limitations of beacon use as well. Thank you for this post. Where do you think the best place (in WA or OR) to take a beginner avalanche safety course is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double_E Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Is buying a used beacon a really stupid idea, or are there some good deals out there? I wouldn't recommend it, Archie. It's just too delicate of a device to trust your life to while wondering what happened to it with/from its previous owner. Anecdote... A couple months ago, a coworker loaned me his beacon while he was out of town so that I could loan it to a friend so that me & friend could go skiing. Well, about 16 hours after the ski trip ended, I realized that the beacon was still on, in receive mode. I wondered if this was a bad thing, so I checked the manual, which said that (ulp) the Ortovox M2 has a "working life" of 300 hours in transmit mode and 40 hours in receive mode. So I called a couple stores, who confirmed my suspicion that this had, in effect, used up 1/2 of the "working life" of the beacon. I felt like shit and told the coworker about it, and offered to pay him some $$ towards a new beacon. He thanked me but said it wouldn't be necessary (he makes way more than me -- probably 2x -- so he didn't care much about it). Anyway so the lessons I took from this were... 1) always make sure yer damn beacon is turned off when you don't need it!!!! 2) don't loan out yer beacon, unless you're sure the person is someone who'd tell you if something went wrong with it 3) don't rent (or buy used) beacons As far as classes... I took Gary Brill's class a few years ago, and thought it very good. I'm surprised no one's mentioned him yet.. Is he no longer teaching them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) I am willing to bet that there was a misunderstanding about the "working life" of beacons. The times you quote should be for battery life, not beacon life. Beacons that can only be used for 40 hours in search mode would be garbage. You want to practice searching more than that! I'll bet the Ortovox manual was translated poorly. If a beacon was only good for 300 hours in transmit mode you would have to throw it away after 30 ski trips! On the other hand, I'll bet some beacons run their batteries down faster than 40 hours in search mode. I always carry spare batteries. The best reason to own your own beacon is to use it a lot and become familiar with it. Practice often, it won't hurt your beacon. I wouldn't be afraid to rent a beacon, but it is worth spending some time testing the beacon in the shop, both to make sure it is working, and to make sure you know how it works. Don't settle for a verbal explanation; take the time to play hide-the-beacon in the shop so you are sure you know how to: turn the beacon on, switch from search mode to transmit mode, and back, tell which mode the beacon is in, use the beacon's multiple burial modes check the batteries change the batteries wear the beacon (harness) turn the beacon off and one feature or another on the various beacons While it is important to become very familiar with your own beacon, it can also be useful to practice with as many combinations of beacons as you get a chance to. You never know what mix of beacons will be found in any given group and, in an actual search, you may need to know something about other people's beacons. It can be useful to know the quirks and capabillities of various models. At the very least, you should know how to turn off the beacons of the other people in your group (when you dig someone up you'll want to turn off their beacon to simplify searching for others). You should spend the time to be competent with a beacon. Seconds count in a real search, but never forget that a high percentage of the people you might locate with your beacon would already be dead. Staying away from unstable slopes remains the best way to stay safe. Edited February 2, 2006 by Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 ...but it is worth spending some time testing the beacon in the shop, both to make sure it is working, and to make sure you know how it works. Don't settle for a verbal explanation; take the time to play hide-the-beacon in the shop...] This works for the most part in small radius searches, however there is so much electronic noise and interference in the city you'll probably get ghost signals when you're doing anything bigger than 20 meters. That's what we've found at least when playing with them in the parking lot across the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Good point, I'm just pointing out that someone using a beacon for the first time ought to know what the knobs are for before they head out into the snow. The best place to practice is away from electronic interference. Best of all is out in the snow with as much realism as is practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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