404 question

[ketch]

So with Baker closed and a day out already in the works I opted to hit the other side of the valley. We skined up to Haneegan pass and then climbed a bit and came out. I decided to try using my Scarpa Freney XT's and make use of the bindings. Usually these boots fit quite well and I wear them often.

 

With the heels unlocked especially on the trail I had real problems with heel lift. It took a lots of fussing just to make things a bit better. Whats up with that? Any of you more experienced AT folk have any ideas as to why the increased problems? and even more important what can I do to remedy?

[kioti]

When the ski flexes, the straightline distance between the toe piece and the heel piece becomes shorter. That results in the back part of the rails catch on the heel piece. That's my guess to what is going on. It's most likely not the boot that is giving you problems. If you have the heel of the boot lifting from the binding, I would say that the binding is too loose. Most good shops would take a look at it and tell you what is going on.

 

Hope it didn't ruin your day!

[ketch]

Close kioti, Thanks for the reply but I don't know that it applies here. I have Silveretta 404 bindings on the skis. they allow me to release the heels IE telemark stuff or lock them down for the downhill. The binding accepts standard mountaineering boots so they work nice for approach. The heel lift that I was having challenges with is while I had the heels of the bindings released and was skinning up. My own heels were lifting inside the boots. I don't usually have this challenge when hiking or climbing. I don't notice challenges when it is a bit colder and I am wearing my plastics either.

 

Hope that is a better explanation of the trouble.

[fern]

probably when you walk in the boots and articulate your ankle the sole flexes, the pivot point is at the ball of your foot. The AT binding locks out the flex in the sole, moves the pivot point forward of your toes. You are still trying to pivot at the ball of your foot and articulate your ankle, thus pulling your heel up because the sole flex can't accomodate. In true AT boots you wouldn't have as much ankle freedom. The AT skinning gait is different than either walking, or Telemark-gear skinning. Maybe try tightening your freneys, wear some thicker socks and experiment with a different gait - more Frankenstein stomp-style, don't bend your ankle as much.

[mattp]

It is not a complicated matter to custom fit your boots so they better hold your heel down. Take some blue foam and carve it into shapes that will fill extra space above and/or below your ankle bone, or add a foam tongue inside the existing one to clamp down on your foot from the top (this is the easiest solution if it works). Don't just cut square edges on your inserts, but taper them at the sides.

 

It will take some experimenting, but you can get a really good custom fit by fooling around with different shapes, taping temporary inserts in your boots, stomping around the house, and adjusting things. If you get a configuration you like, you can then seal it in place with ripstop repair tape or equivalent.

[ketch]

Thanks for the help. Fern, good job at keeping a guy humble. Now I'm thinking "of course, why didn't I think of that." My Arctis Epeditions don't offer the option of lifting my heels or flexing inappropritly. I chose the Scarpas because I wanted that flex in the climb. I'll just have to experiment with a little more stomping.

 

Matt, I will definatley experiment with adding pads. I like the boots in a normal application but maybe they will be even better.